T Nation

Maximizing Stack Tricks?


#1

I freely admit I did a shit job of searching before asking because I couldn't quite figure out how to plug in the right terms/words.

I have access to testosterone micronized in topical cream at 60mg a day (so 420mg a week.) I'm also able to get Testosterone Cyp 200mg injectable per week.

That equals a bit over a gram of tes a week (though I have no idea if the two items are equivalent enough to add them together like that as a single "dose"--the way dinabol + deca taken together might produce more results than only one would; but they're not the "same",while Test C and Test E taken together would-- if that made sense).

I think a gram of tes a week is like the rock bottom limit for what people use and see results and usually it's a gram of tes plus another substance stacked. I assume that if I'm patient and steady it will yield results over time that I wouldn't see otherwise--just not 600lbs benches, etc.

All that long book of details I just wrote was to give the Wise Ones here enough information so I could ask this question: is there anything I can do to really squeeze every last drop out of just a mild dosage?

I know this is medicine and a dose is a dose is a dose--but there's got to be hundreds of years of combined knowledge on this forum so I thought it couldn't hurt to ask if there's any trick to make each last milligram count?

Thanks for the help.


#2

Just so you know 1000mg of test is not in any way a mild cycle. Also unless you diet is full blown shit there is no reason you can not grow greatly from 500-600mg of Test especially if its your first cycle


#3

Wow thanks. I honestly had no idea that was true. My info I admit is old (like Dan Duchaine and Anabolic Reference Guide 1996 old) and the last thing I ever took was Dinabol straight for 8 weeks so I'm not knowledgeable. This is pretty good news and makes me feel more hopeful. Thanks, man.


#4

Wait. Now I'm wondering if I should address possible estrogen conversion. My thinking a gram a week was low meant I gave no thought to any significant amounts that would lead to something like gyno or whatever. I started the primrose oil for general liver health--but hadn't considered side effects because of my misunderstanding about dose strength.

I took D-bol 25mg per day for the 8 weeks like I said above and saw no aramotization problems, but obviously these are different substances.


#5

1000mg a week can and usually lead to a pretty elevated estrogen level. Every one is different. I do not use any estrogen meds usually bit I always have arimidex and nolva and a few other things on hand because you never know how the drug will effect you. But if your susceptible to Gyno and Estrogen sides 1000mg of test is more than enough to make them very noticeable.

I highly suggest getting some Nolva and Arimidex and have it on hand if sides do show. Also get blood work done a few weeks into the cycle. Just because your not getting gyno doesn't mean your estrogen is not sky high to dangerous levels causing other problem.


#6

Hey, thanks for taking the time to set me straight on this. I'm pretty isolated. I can readily get my hands on some DIM so maybe I'll start taking that proactively then go for something stronger should something start to go wonky?


#7

420+200=620mg. Cream is 5-10% absorbed so that's a total of maybe 250mg testosterone per week including the cypionate. DIM is garbage use arimidex.


#8

Anime, I was literally in the car coming home when it hit me that my initial math was ass clownish. I also discovered during my pick up that while the Tes C IS 200mg/Ml but that's a 2 week dose. So in reality I'm at max hitting 520mg. I even need to worry about E2 conversion? I take Calcium-D glucatate (sp?) anyway for environmental estrogen blocking help.

You're saying the cream is only 5-10% absorbed? The TRT companies sure paint a rosier picture. Anyway to milk a larger % out of the cream that you know about? Hell I'd put it on my gums if it mean full absorption, lol.

For that matter what if I took the Test C at 200mg a week with the cream so that I finished that prescription 50% faster, used just the cream to bridge the difference then hit the Cypionate again. I think I read (yes, very noob guy here) that "blast & cruise" is a good plan--but with doses this low am I better off just trying to hit the 520mg a week, week in and week out.

Lot of hypothetical questions I know but I can't exactly bounce this shit off the physician.


#9

here's an excellent study that i wish everyone would read that uses AAS: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172

as you can see, 300 mg/wk is pretty effective, particularly for an athlete, as they gained a decent amount of muscle, but the strength gains were comparable to higher doses. at 600 mg/wk, one can expect large gains in mass, but not much more in strength over a lower dose...

so the take home lesson, is larger doses of AAS do seem to matter when one is looking for greater gains is muscle size, but not necessary for someone looking to simply get stronger, or make more modest gains in weight.


#10

DIM is helpful in general estrogen metabolism, but won't make up for high doses of exogenous hormones...

i'm one that has shitty joints and i generally have few estrogen issues, so i'm not one to freak out about using an AI. however, as has been stated before, having it available is common sense, and a great idea, just in case...

one drug that i think is very useful in a cycle, is Proviron... it can help control estrogen, as well as SHBG, making the testosterone you're taking more effective...


#11

First, great link. Thanks for letting me read that study.

Also I appreciate the responses--learning a lot