Maximizing Muscle Growth vs. Optimizing Your Body as You Get Older

Bigger Stronger Leaner Christian Thibaudeau Coaching
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Well crap. I’m 51 and therefore well in the age range that I should seriously consider what CT is saying here.

I missed this thread; been away for a bit and just returned to review the forums…really should have been an article on T-nation. These types of thoughts even if they fly in the face of what people (like me) want to hear MUST be written and said. This is much like the wonderful “best damn workout” and the proper training for naturals articles that I just love…novel thoughts based on observation and careful analysis of studies, etc.

I’m screwed, blued, and tatooed here anyways since I have been a juicer (though a responsible one) and therefore have probably accelerated the aging process already. Alas I’ve made my own decision: I’m still gonna train for mass and strength preservation with the tried and true eccentrics emphasis that I’ve always done, but I think I will add in what is suggested here with regards to more athletic and coordination type of training as well.

Thanks for ruining my day CT.

: ) kidding

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I’ve never had much choice in the matter. I was raised to be fat long before I reached the age that I even realized the disadvantages, so my body’s set point is on the heavy side. It can be fat or it can be muscle, but I’d have to join a Buddhist monastery to ever see the under side of 200 pounds again.

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I remember when I was watching the London Olympics. It seemed a lot of top Chinese athletes couldn’t make it because of injuries that sounded a lot like the results of over training, which the Chinese are notorious for. I lived in China for nine years and they just don’t understand (or don’t care about) the health benefits of rest, either in athletic or academic training. Even in high school a lot of their students are dependent upon coffee because they are up too late at night doing homework.

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I can’t make it to the gym as often as “best damn” wants, but on off days I do short body weight work outs, involving body weight squats, push ups, planks, and almost all my ab work. On those days I like alternating set between legs and another body part (Example: squats, side crunches, squats, crunches, and so on) so the heart has to work harder.

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This article/thread got me into research mode and I did start exploring studies on the relationship between mTOR and aging, and its as CT has written…unfortunately. Gets me thinking about alot of other things we do to get bigger and stronger like taking supplements to increase cAMP for example or the standard mTOR influencer leucine, HMB, etc. These are all nutritional mechanisms that I have tried to use to enhance normal diet intake.

But that might be the very key here…enhancement. As CT has written, perhaps there really is an ideal natural set point for weight and muscular potential, and the act of trying to enhance via drugs, diet, supplementation, or even training is just detrimental to our existence.

The concept of regulating mTOR now to not overstimulate but to get just the right amount as to not be detrimental to training now becomes somewhat the key no? There is a study out there that shows 7.12 grams of leucine (an mTOR modulating nutrient and a key ingredient for muscle protein synthesis machinery) a day given to elderly people suffering from age related muscle wasting was enough to halt that wasting. So, maybe we as hard trainers need a little bit more but maybe we just don’t need that much more.

Man, my mind is racing…

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I’m 55 (and been training non stop since I was 12) so I guess I’m in the “try and halt aging or age graceful” category.

I think there’s a balance and moderation to everything in life and your goal dictates how extreme you want to take things.

That being said I’m big into the longevity stuff and trying to delay the aging process as much as possible yet I still work on adding muscle and strength however little it is. So my approach is to activate mTOR as much as possible only before, during, and after my workouts using certain training techniques (given by Thibs that turns on mTOR) and using certain dietary supplements and approaches that do the same. For the other 22-23 hours of the day( and 3 other days of the week I don’t train) I focus on the age delaying approaches and activating cAMP.

I believe this gives me a good balance. Though I do feel healthier and more energetic and alert when in cAMP mode so to speak like when dieting (low carbs low inslulin levels) and doing plenty of cardio as opposed to times I was using every approach possible to add size and strength.

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55? That is awesome man! I thought I was old… ; )

I like the way you are doing things as1. There are some articles that indicate increasing cAMP is related to increase in longevity (I will continue to use Carbolin-19 because of it). As for mTOR, I will also try to maximize its activation only around training and stay away from it at other times of the day. That means no more trying to get maximum leucine intake each meal…just going to do that around training time.

Longevity is something I am just getting interested in, and for the longest time I was honestly believing that my weight training/bodybuilding was promoting it.

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This is a very interesting discussion. However, I think There also had to be a question of whether or not being sedentary is worse than training (if training is bad… I’m not convinced yet)

Meaning that while training may do this-or-that what Is The alternative? Also training improves glucose utilization, preserves LBM into old age, preserves strength into old age… it has many benefits over not training

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I don’t think anyone would argue that being sedentary leads to a longer life compared to being active. However, there is a question about what type of training/exercise/lifestyle would lead to optimal health and longevity.

For example, let’s look at person A and B.

Person A: Walks 1 hour each day, does calisthenics 3X per week, does yoga, and eats only whole foods. He is 5’10" and weighs 170 lbs.

Person B: Regularly does heavy barbell lifts, progressively being able to bench, squat, and DL very impressive numbers. Does lots of isolation work, drop sets, etc… Slams down PLAZMA, protein supplements, BCAA’s, and focuses on reaching macros rather than whole foods. Is 5’10" and weighs 210 lbs, and can bench 375, DL 550, squat 450 and has monster traps.

While most on T Nation would aspire to be Person B, I don’t think there would much of an argument that Person A will likely live a longer life.

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I might argue this…

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If person B dies earlier, I assume it’s out of shame stemming from his piss-poor bench.
:stuck_out_tongue:

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Training is never bad. Excessive training is.

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So… is there a happy medium between training for hypertrophy and training to age well??

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I think I would rather die early than be person A.
Just my opinion.

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I think that’s where finding the right balance comes into play. Ironically my whole life I’ve been trying to emulate the B guy and ironically my stats were similar to the example posted lol.

But as I got older between injuries and all of the things required to be the B guy didn’t make me feel healthy anymore and noticed I felt much better being a fairly ripped 180-85 and following a life style that was geared toward this.

Though I do still like to train low reps to gain or maintain as much strength as possible as I age because I do believe loss of strength and frailty is a major contributor to aging.

Also like Thibs pointed out a few posts back also believe excessive exercise can also age you. Ever notice how haggard many long distance runners look or even competitive bodybuilders who look like they’re in their 40’s when they’re only in their 20’s?

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This thread got me interested in the topic, so much that I picked up this book by T-mag author Scott Abel. For five bucks, it’s worth it and actually has some great information in it. I know CT is fond of Scott.

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Care to give a brief synopsis?

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Yeah. I can go over some key points that I remember.

As we age, especially if we have been training a long time, we can simply FORGET about performing the way we used to. He thinks this mentality should take hold after 50, not 40, hence the title of his book.

Keep in mind Scott doesn’t speak the way I do, so some ways of describing things are not his.

HRT is the way to go if someone TRULY has hypogonadism. TRT is NOT a cycle and NOT an aid to performing better in a gym. TRT is treatment for hypogonadism, and that’s it! (My thought: I know that’s a hard concept for many to understand: the use of T for medicine, and medicine only.)

If you can handle barbell exercises after a certain age, fine. If not, the primary focus for older people should be dumbbells, cables, and machines. So for most, this means shit-canning barbell bench presses, barbell overheard presses, barbell rows, barbell squats, and so on.

Machines, bands, and cables are your friends.

Strength coaches, with their die-hard “add weight to the bar” attitude is unnecessary and has caused damage to many people. This concept is inappropriate for bodybuilding. Of course we want to progress in weights no matter the exercise, we do not have to be stuck with injurious exercises and barbells alone. (Yeah, he mentions Rippetoe.)

You can still have a decent amount of volume.

If you’ve been training for some time, forget about adding muscle after 50.

No jarring and explosive lifts or drills. That means no O lifts, no plyos, no sprints.

For cardio, walking (especially outdoor walking), cycling and some machines are best. NO sprints, no running, no jogging.

You can do full body, body part focused routines three to six times per week if volume and exercise selection are controlled wisely.

NEVER train to failure.

My point: Aside from the full body training, what comes to mind is this is exactly what Dexter Jackson and Jay Cutler do, and aside from being retired, they both are lasting a long time in the gym and both look great!

I actually think this is the way to go for many people, even before 50.

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Really… where did you hear that? He does have some good info but I don’t agree with everything he says and I don’t know him enough as a person to say that I’m fond of him.

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I read it on here years ago. If memory serves me correctly, you wrote some very complimentary things about him. If you didn’t, then I apologize.