Why is this even a thing? Were trannys being ran out of restrooms by the hoards and I just didn’t know about it? Serious question…cause it would seem to me that everything was fine until somebody decided it was a good idea to say “hey look at me I’m a tranny and I am going to use the ladies room and you need to support me and celebrate my choices in life otherwise you’re a bigot”. But maybe I missed something.
Let’s back up a step.
It is a fact that, for some individuals, the following traits are not consistent with one another:
One’s birth sex: For simplicity’s sake, let’s pretend everyone is born with a penis or a vagina. So, birth sex is determined by which piece of plumbing one was born with.
One’s current sex: Again for simplicity’s sake, assume everyone has either a penis or a vagina. Note that if an individual is a trans post-op, his/her current sex will not concord with his/her birth sex.
One’s gender identity: This refers to the internal feeling of ‘being a boy’ vs ‘being a girl.’ It is entirely unverifiable; ie, it is a purely self-reported trait.
One’s gender expression: This refers to the gender of one’s outward physical appearance in terms of habitus, hairstyle, clothing, mannerisms, etc.
A question for those of you who object to ‘men’ in the Ladies room: Given that these traits are discordant in some individuals, which one(s) should take precedence in determining the bathroom a given individual should use?
Ogre, aren’t you a lawyer? You’ll probably understand this better, but here’s the Cliff’s Notes as I understand them -
Federal Dept of Education recommends students be allowed to use bathroom that corresponds with their gender identity.
Some school districts are going with BC policies, resulting in cases like this one.
Various states are passing their own LGBT anti-discrimination laws. States like North Carolina are digging in on the issue of restrooms, writing legislation that specifically addresses it. Other states like Utah are using much more general language like “employers will make reasonable accommodations.”
The Equality Act of 2015 > The Equality Act of 2015 is a bill in the United States House of Representatives and the Senate that if passed would amend the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to include protections that ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, and sex in the areas of employment, housing, public accommodations, public education, federal funding, credit, and the jury system.
I’ve been following along enjoying the back-and-forth, not really caring which bathroom one chooses to take a piss in. However, substitute “locker room” for “bath room” and I had a very visceral reaction.
If a guy in a dress walks in to a women’s bathroom and enters a stall to take a piss I really couldn’t care less. If a dude in a dress exposes himself to my daughter while she’s getting ready for her swim lesson at the Y, there’s going to be a problem.
So there it is… I guess it’s easy to be progressive until some woman is flashing her cock at your little girl.
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Having followed the topic for a while and seeing this sentiment, I have to ask;
If a sexually deviant female flashed her vagina at your daughter, would there also be hell to pay?
Yes.
Your point?
…
This is honestly why I dislike/stay away from discussions on the internet, as many people believe that every question is loaded with some sort’ve “GOTCHA” in it with sinister intentions. I apologize if that is what you thought I intended, as it was not. I legitimately was curious, because the conversation up until this point has been about how terrible it would be for a man to expose themselves to a girl, and it did not seem to convey the idea that it would be equally terrible for a woman to do it as well.
So, no “point”, simply an inquiry.
ha, my response was more indicative of the debate going on in my head than any perceived intentions on your part. I struggle with this issue quite a bit.
Cheers.
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Dirk already mentioned CA -
Know Your Rights When Using Restrooms (California)
In California, business establishments, non-profits, and government agencies that serve the public cannot discriminate based on someone’s gender identity or gender expression. [Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b)]
This includes
Stopping you from using a restroom or other sex-segregated facility that matches your gender identity.
Asking you to provide ID to prove your gender in order to use a restroom or other sex-segregated facility, such as a dressing room or gym locker room.
CA law also lets kids participate in athletics according to gender identity.
It passed in 2013, and went into effect in Jan 2014.
Let’s back up a step.
It is a fact that, for some individuals, the following traits are not consistent with one another:
One’s birth sex: For simplicity’s sake, let’s pretend everyone is born with a penis or a vagina. So, birth sex is determined by which piece of plumbing one was born with.
One’s current sex: Again for simplicity’s sake, assume everyone has either a penis or a vagina. Note that if an individual is a trans post-op, his/her current sex will not concord with his/her birth sex.
One’s gender identity: This refers to the internal feeling of ‘being a boy’ vs ‘being a girl.’ It is entirely unverifiable; ie, it is a purely self-reported trait.
One’s gender expression: This refers to the gender of one’s outward physical appearance in terms of habitus, hairstyle, clothing, mannerisms, etc.
A question for those of you who object to ‘men’ in the Ladies room: Given that these traits are discordant in some individuals, which one(s) should take precedence in determining the bathroom a given individual should use?
None of the above. It should be based on perceived gender. Basically don’t rock the boat. In a locker room, you’ll need to go based on your genitalia. For a bathroom where you use a stall, if you don’t make a stink you can probably get away with most stuff.
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Eye : Beautifully Worded.
To clarify the difference between Sexuality and Gender :
Sexuality is Who You want to go to Bed With
Gender is Who You want to Wake UP As (male vs. Female)
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Hey dirk…
I know you’ve worked with athletes in the past (weren’t you Meb’s training partner?). Is that what you do for a living? If so, do you believe that the female hormones specifically or transitioning in general has negatively impacted your training and training of others?
Sorry for the vague question.
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It has definately been a shock to some, not so much to others.
I may have lost some clientelle on one end of the social spectrum (trumpsters close minded , born again christians that i worked with) , but have then picked up people in the LGBTQ community.
Most people realize that i am the same person just in a different expression than they where used to seeing me in. I treat all my friends the same way, and to their credit they do their best
in their efforts to wrap their heads around what i am going through.
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