Actually (replying to both @pushharder and @Chushin) I think ideally the issue would be treated like sex. I do not believe laws need to be specific (e.g. yes to married couples - man and his woman - but excepting fellatio and anal sex). I’m comfy with "anyone can have sex of whatever sort with anyone else with the exception of children (specifics of this determined state by state) and acts which are determined to be assaultive, generally due to someone pressing charges.
I believe that like sex, who uses what bathroom will sort itself out if we allow it to.
Chushin, if you feel that a woman has invaded your space in a way that makes you uncomfortable, you should leave. I have used men’s rooms three or four times when lines have been atrocious enough that I felt there was little choice but to break the social code. This may have made some of the men in the lesser line uncomfortable, and maybe angry. Violated, even. If this is the sort of thing that makes them feel violated, they are probably lucky.
I don’t know how to make this any clearer: I don’t care which bathroom they use.
A question for you, Push - do you think my daughter and others like her should be willing to do jobs like the one she is doing? Welcoming unsavory types to spend the night in a building with her? I have been loomed over and cussed out by a big (6’2") guy, who has a history of escalation into property-damage-type violence (throwing chairs around, knocking over tables in public places). I was very uncomfortable when he got so angry at me! And also frightened. Another guy noted that “I’m not going back to jail. I’ll go full-blown Hannible Lector if I have to.” I was afraid of him, too. He’s spent most of his adulthood in jail, and is actively psychotic.
So I dealt with the two of them (discharged the latter, the former had already stormed away for good) and then continued on, doing the work I love and am good at.
I don’t mean to be vituperative, condemning, or inflammatory, but some of you are sounding distinctly weenie-like to me. WHAT is the big terror? I just don’t see it.
in this day and age when women do not know if they are raped or not,do not know if they were Assaulted or not
some people i know are worried about becomeing a scapegoat for the issue
notice the articles on the issues alot of trans are dealing with
I’m with Emily on this one. Much ado about nothing.
Interesting that the men are arguing safety issues and the women participating here don’t seem to fear for their safety at all. I don’t feel remotely threatened by transgendered people. This is not a new phenomenon. Just new to the media spotlight.
And the argument that men will use the law to their advantage to access women’s bathrooms to leer? If they’re that whacked, they’ll find some way to violate women whether the law provides them access or not.
Call me overly emotional, but I feel tremendous compassion for someone who struggles with something as innate and primal to me as gender identity.
I’m always overly compassionate, Push. That’s who I am.
Trans people have been using public restrooms all along. Like Emily said, if someone’s feels they are being leered at or threatened in any way, regardless of sex or sexual orientation or gender identity or etc, it should be reported and addressed.
It is interesting that men are more concerned about it than women, but hardly surprising, actually. Men are much more likely to be the target of violence than women. Men are much more likely to die at work. Men, in general, experience danger and violence much more often and regularly than women.
Basically, men shield women from most physical danger and violence. One of the tenets of civilization is men protecting women. It’s entirely expected that men should be more wary of danger and more concerned about the safety of the women in their lives than those women are concerned about their own safety.
No, Push, I don’t “want” it codified. You asked and asked and asked the same question and I finally offered that it seems like needless red tape, but whatever.
When I answered fully I said
Actually (replying to both @pushharder and @Chushin) I think ideally the issue would be treated like sex. I do not believe laws need to be specific (e.g. yes to married couples - man and his woman - but excepting fellatio and anal sex). I’m comfy with "anyone can have sex of whatever sort with anyone else with the exception of children (specifics of this determined state by state) and acts which are determined to be assaultive, generally due to someone pressing charges.
I believe that like sex, who uses what bathroom will sort itself out if we allow it to. I would like sex, gender, and bathrooms to be left to individual discretion. I don’t think the government needs to dictate the terms of urination. That’s my Libertarian streak.
Hypothetical question, Push. Suppose I could demonstrate (to your satisfaction) that TG protection laws:
–Did not increase the rate at which women are sexually harassed in restrooms and/or locker rooms;
–did not result in a significant increase in discomfort levels among the cis-female population at large; and
–did result in a decrease in sexual harassment of trans females.
In other words, suppose it turned out that all your safety concerns were unfounded. The question: Would you then drop your objection to TG laws?
(And before you say it, fair warning: The response ‘I can’t answer this, because it is impossible for you to demonstrate these things to my satisfaction’ would be a complete cop-out.)
Not sure what the question is about willing - I’m asking if she’s safe in your opinion and questioning whether we should legislate against homeless shelter interns, since there’s significant risk that she be made uncomfortable and is even at risk for harm, and whether from your perspective she should draw the line at sketchy people potentially entering a building where she will be vulnerable (should be unwilling to do this). Should I end my career after having twice now felt directly threatened at work? Should we legislate against men accessing female therapists, given that there is no protective other in the room, and women accessing male therapists?
As for Kroc and the six-year-old…can you remind me why I have my six-year-old in the locker room at Gold’s? I seem to recall dropping my small children in the nursery and then picking them up as I walked out, if I had to bring them at all.
But honestly, if the incredibly statistically unlikely worst happened and we did see Kroc’s dick at the gym or pool I’d tell my six year old daughter “That’s a penis, sweetie. Like [Brothers’]. I’m not sure why someone with a penis was in the girls’ locker room. Maybe he feels more comfortable there. But anyway, no harm done! Make sure you remember to get your wet bathing suit out of the car when we get home.”