Matt Furey very anti deadlift

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

Couple of comments:

Furey does know a lot about training, a hell of a lot. He didn’t start learning and using BW exercises exclusively until 98 or 99. Before that, he was a personal trainer for a few years with his own gym. He has said before that the most result-producing exercises he used in training his clients, and in his own training, were always heavy compound movements, esp the clean and press, squat, chins, etc.

THe guy won his world title and his wrestling titles while training with free weights- so to say he doesn’t know much about weight training is ridiculous.
He is also Brooks Kubik’s friend and used to write for his newsletter.

So he emphasizes BW exercises. So what?
That’s his bread and butter.

Tate is a PL, makes his living thru powerlifting, and advocates PL exercises.

Thib is an Olympic weightlifting coach and competitor, and he recommends Olympic lifts as the most result-producing.

Coach Davies teaches a hybrid system of all sorts of exercises he calls Renegade training, and advocates that.

Pavel pimps kettlebells.

Brooks pimps Dino training.

So what?

Furey does the same as all the others. He avocates his own style.

Now if you have a problem with the man’s snake-oil salesmanship and his arrogance, that’s ANOTHER issue.

The guy has questionable tactics, that’s for sure.

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Re: magnetic mind power, he is rehashing Napoleon Hill and Dale Carnegie, probably the 2 most influential self-help authors ever.

I doubt its BS, but it sure ain’t worth what he’s charging for it.

Also, the price for his Psycho-Cybernetics program is revolting BUT I’m sure most other self-help “gurus” have ridiculously high prices on their self-help packages as well.

Personally, I have a couple Psycho-Cyb, books that I picked up for 10 bucks.

23

“I guess he could take that up with Westside Barbell”

Are you kidding me? Dave Tate and Louie Simmons have had tons of injuries, they write about them all the time. That’s what inspired Louie to invent the reverse hyper.
Here’s a training cylce log from Dave Tate:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/iron_house_open-dave.htm

I’m not knocking power lifting or weight lifting, but its pretty easy to get hurt, even if you know what you’re doing. Most people on this board have hurt themselves lifting, and I doubt they were doing training as intense as the Westside guys.

Of course, you’re bound to get hurt in any sport, that’s the price we pay for not sitting on our butts.

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And doing 500 Hindu squats won’t cause any problems? Repetitive use injuries, anyone?

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“And doing 500 Hindu squats won’t cause any problems? Repetitive use injuries, anyone?”

Heh, right on.

The thing that kills me about Furey’s anecdote isn’t that he questions the safety of deadlifts- I think safety discussions are always good to have, it’s just that his argument/example is so bad that it doesn’t even count.

Shit, people have freak accidents and trash their back and knees getting into and out of bed… I guess we should all stop sleeping for safety’s sake.

It’s pretty common for old people to injure themselves when they slip in the shower… I guess showering is out too… can’t be too careful!

And since Furey mentions that 80% of us will have back pain from work LETS ALL STOP WORKING!! WOOOOOOO!!

I’ll give my anecdote here. I’ve never really had back pain or even close to what I’d call a bad back, but my line of work (computer programming) has me sitting on my ass all day. So I know about being tight and having some occasional pain from sitting too long in a not ergonomically ideal position (oh yeah, sitting gives us back pain, so we should stop doing that too). I’ve trained for several years, but I had always been doing BB style training with more emphasis on body comp and isolation movements. Since I started training for strenght and doing compound movements (including deadlifts) my back has just felt generally healthier and stronger and more solid. The little twinges I’d get here and there are a lot less common, and any pain I get goes away a lot faster than it used to. Now, on occasion I’ve done something in the gym that felt like maybe it wasn’t doing me any favors… in fact, I’ve just decided to check the ego and cut back the weight on my deadlifts, because I don’t think my core (especially lower back) is strong enough to handle the weights my upper back and legs can pull, so for safety’s sake I’m going to cut back focus on form with light weight and assistance excercises to bring up my low back.

It kills me that Furey says nothing about how his buddy trains. Maybe the guys just trains like an Idiot. Is the form perfect? Is he periodizing his training or pulling maxes every week? He mentions the guy has a history of back pain but no specifics on what else could be contributing beyond deadlifts. I mean, I found that one of the best things I could do for my back is sleep with a pillow under my lumbar, because my mattress is too soft, and without the extra support my back gets unhappy. Ditto sleeping on my side, it just twists my back, shoulders and neck all outta whack. The back is so much more complicated than Guy has back pain; Guy deadlifts; Guy has pain from deadlifts.

Thing that sucks is, I’ve read some of Furey’s stuff and it’s interesting, but when he goes off on uninformed rants that just happen to sell his product, it makes it a lot harder to take his good information seriously.

Nick

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Furey is an idiot.

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THe thing about Furey is, he’s a real T-man.

He does what he wants to do and when he wants to do it, and is succesful both financially as well as respect-wise in the fitness community.

He’s been a stud in sports, and he genuinely doesn’t give a flying fuck what anybody else thinks. His prices are too high, his ads are low-class, he’s cocky. He doesn’t care, period.

THe guy has an iron will and complete focus on what HE wants, not on what OTHES say.

He is also HATED in some fitness circles and by many coaches, and that’s always a GOOD thing because it means he’s ruffling feathers, and that’s something a T-man relishes in.

Of course, that last email update re: deadlifts was BS.

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I was big into heavy deadlifting some 8 months ago. Two or three days after a particularly strenuous session where I’d maxed with a 4 plates to a side, I started having back, hip, and leg pain down both sides very reminiscent of sciatica. I vividly remember tripping over something a month later and nearly passing out from the pain.

This escalated on and off until two months ago, when, after 3 MRIs, 6 X-Rays, and more followups than I care to list, I discovered I have a predisposition to back inflammation called ankylosing spondylitis. It’s a genetic thing that affects a few percent of the population.

I’m all of 20 right now, and I’ve no doubt I’ll be reliant on some kind of anti-inflammatory for the rest of my life. Deadlifting with too much weight (despite proper form) was a primary contributor. I’ve just started doing them again, but it’s slow going and very awkward.

97% of 20 year olds can abuse themselves in the gym with few ill effects… but that last 3% tends to find out otherwise only AFTER they’ve screwed themselves up. Use some sense.

DI

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Deadlifting has nothing to do with your ailment. Your ailment will cause pain with any loading on the back. Your example is irrelevant. That would be like me blaming my shoulder injuries on the bench press when my shoulders would hurt no matter what I do.

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So kind of you to chime in, Goldberg.

Deadlifting provided far heavier lumbar loading than anything I’d experienced with squats, bent rows, or hang cleans. At the time, I’d done them consistently for only a month or two, with a rapid progression.

AS isn’t caused by deadlifting, but the inflammation that is the primary symptom can certainly be aggravated by it. I provided subsequent details merely for the curious.

Frankly, Goldberg, and I’ve said this before, I don’t care what you do. It’s been 6 months since my last post here, and already you remind me of the big swinging dick syndrome that made me leave in the first place.

DI

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I know two other people with your exact same condition who cant even squat. You are lucky to be able to do what you have been doing. You cant extrapolate from someone who has a defect to a healthy population. Now that I think about it I know three people. All three have back problems and dont lift at all. I dont care what you think about me. There is nothing inherently dangerous about deadlifting. I do believe the forces on the back are much worse in the Olympic lifts so you arguement there goes out the window as well.