T Nation

Masteron & Test P in Same Syringe


#1

Is it acceptable to "piggyback" Masteron (Drostanolone Propionate) and Testosterone Propionate in the same syringe and inject simultaneously?

If so - is it acceptable to push almost 2mL of this "mixture" into one injection site?

I've been doing this for the past couple of days and the injection sites have been quite sore. I have read the sticky regarding injection site pain (contamination, benzyl alcohol, reaction to the ester, hitting the lymphatic system, hitting highly innervated areas) but I'm trying to eliminate one variable at a time here.

Thanks.


#2

Yes it is possible. I take it you aren't injecting every day if you are shooting 100mg of each?

I'd be comfortable putting 2ml in the ventroglute and dorsalglute but it would be sore for the first few shots. 1ml is all I'd do in other sites.

Or you may have a bad pain reaction to the T prop. Some people just get pain no matter how much they use or how dilute it is.

Do smaller, daily injections and see if it helps.

EDIT
In the first line I am assuming that the concentration is 100mg/ml. I have no idea what it is and shouldn't have assumed that.


#3

Thanks Bonez,

To answer your question, I am injecting 0.75mL of the Test Prop (concentration is 100mg/mL) and 1mL of the Masteron (concentration 75mg/mL) DAILY which equates to 525mg of each per week. So 1.75mL is going in with each injection. I inject EXTREMELY slowly so as to minimize the damage to the tissue and I rub it afterwards.

On the first day, I went into the Ventroglute left side. The following day my left side was pretty sore so I went into the right Ventroglute. The third day (this morning) both butt cheeks were sore so I went into my Vastus Lateralis and my leg actually swelled up down to my knee cap and it's painful to walk. So all 3 injection sites have proven painful (not during but afterwards) but the leg was the most debilitating (if I could say debilitating - it just hurts to walk).

Maybe I should stick to my butt. It seems to be the most forgiving. I'm just a little apprehensive about running out of injection sites with daily injections followed by swellling and pain in each.


#4

I'd split them up and add delts into the site rotation. If you find that smaller injection volumes doesn't decrease the pain than you may decide to combine the oils when shooting in the VG and DG, just to give the other sites more time in between shots.

Hopefully the pain you are experiencing is the pain most people get when doing the first few injections of a cycle.


#5

I have been injecting 3mls into a single injection site daily for a few months now. However, this is certainly not something I would recommend to anyone who has not been doing this for years. I inject this volume into delts, too, but I have worked up to it over a long time, and I happen to have fairly large shoulders, which also helps. When I used to inject just 2mls into delts, I felt some pretty ugly pain sometimes immediately after and for the rest of the days (different than typical next-day post injection pain). I noticed Brook (I think) mentioned this the other day as perhaps an indication of fascial stretching, and I have to say that explanation makes sense to me. Anyway now I put 3mls into delts twice a week with zero pain (nor any post-injection pain, either...gotta love properly homebrewed gear :slightly_smiling: I don't have any problems with VG or glute at this volume at all, but I cannot abide prop in my quads, unfortunately, at pretty well any volume.

As Bonez alludes to above, though, it sounds possible that your pain may not have anything to do with volume. Especially as the VG site is purported to be able to accept as much as 5mls!

Having your leg swell up is not a sign of too-large injection volume, so far as I know. It's not a good thing, either. If the description above is of your very first shots, then I fear you may just have painful gear, which could be a result of too-high BA concentration or, ime, of contamination of the vial you are shooting from. Hopefully, though, it is just the pain of "virgin" muscle.


#6

Thanks for your reply Cortes. If it is the BA, is there anything I can do about it? I think I read one post where a guy took the stopper off and heated it to evaporate some of the BA...


#7

I've heard mixed opinions as to this working. I've never tried it myself so I couldn't say. You could cut it with more sterile oil, but of course that's going to increase your necessary injection volume.

I've actually had success, when dealing with gear that was really painful, in filtering it once more into a new sterile vial. It has taken some of the most debilitating, crippling, flu-like symptom inducing gear and turned it into highly effective, painless gear. I recommended this to one guy who was having problems, though, and it didn't work for him. He ended up adding more sterile oil and this solved his problem. Basically the answer is going to depend upon the cause of the problem, which is sometimes pretty hard to figure out.

Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll just stop hurting. However, if you were motivated enough to post about it, I'll conjecture it is something more than just "virgin muscle" pain.

What kind of gear is it? UGL? Pharm (or perhaps faked pharm grade)? Homebrew?


#8

That's not going to work. Anyone, for the most part, who home brews heats all the ingredients together (BA/BB/Oil/powders) to ease the mixing process. That's around the 250 degree (F) mark also, with no evaporation of the BA.

BA's flashpoint is 210 F, with a boiling point of 401 F; to find a temperature and heat it long enough to evaporate the BA I think would cause you to scorch your gear. Then, you still don't know how much evaporated, etc.

Diluting the gear sounds the most logical route, just by filtering in a mL or two of oil.

I'd guess the one inject in your leg was just a bad injection. Sounds like a slight infection to me. Was there heat radiating down your leg? Redness with the swelling?


#9

x2


#10

Both are from underground labs.

My brother was using the prop too so I called him up and asked him about injection pain. He confirmed that it was also painful for him and that he actually woke up the other night when he rolled onto his ass. He told me that I would have to accept that I would be walking around in pain for the next 8 weeks.

I've had painful injection sites before but I had always used a longer ester so by the time I was due for my next shot, the pain had subsided.

This swelliing of my thigh is really something new to me - it still hurts today and I don't have the full range of motion of my leg. I can only bend it to about 90 degrees.

I've been putting ice on it.

Yhis morning I had to inject again - so I went back into my ass with the prop and an older bottle of masteron that I knew had not really bothered me in the past (from a different supplier). So far I'm in okay shape.

At this point I don't know if it's the masteron that's causing the problem or if I just had a bad injection into my thigh (it's the first time I've done it). Next I'm going to go into my ass on the other side with the prop and the "suspicious" masteron and see what happens. If I have a bad reaction again, then I will conclude that it is that masteron and try to return the bottles to buddy.

By the way - where would I get sterile oil to dilute it?? Pharmacy??


#11

I have a feeling that it was a bad injection although both sides of my ass are still sore...

There was definitely swelling in my leg - you could not see the definition of the muscles on the side with the problem. However, I pushed my finger into it (painful) and it did not indent or anything like that.

I did not see a whole lot of redness until I had a shower - then I came out and noticed in the mirror that my whole thigh looked like it had a sunburn. Haven't noticed a lot of heat radiating.

I could live with the pain in my ass because my leg pain is clearly masking it. I think I'll avoid that injection site from now on. Maybe I hit something I shouldn't have like a lymph duct...

EDIT
By the way - I don't have a fever.


#12

researchsupply.net.

Get some larger luer lock syringes, like 10-20ml (assuming you're using a 10 or 20 ml vial), a couple 21g needles, a few .22 micron syringe filters, maybe some sealed sterile vials along with some unfiltered cottonseed oil.

If you want to refilter the entire vial, draw it out, attach the filter and needle and simply push it into a new sterile sealed vial. Vent it with a 23g needle while doing it.

Or, draw one or two ml of oil into a smaller luer lock, like your injection pins, attach the filter and needle and push it into the existing vial. Vent this one too, because I'd heat it at around 250 degrees F for 20 minutes or so, then shake it up to ensure everything mixes up. Keep it vented while baking, not shaking :wink:. You can tell when the "swirlies" are gone out of the oil that it's mixed properly. You'll know what I mean when you see it. Of course you have to recalculate your mg/ml, depending on how much oil you put in.

Heating the oil prior to drawing/filtering will speed the process, just like injecting.


#13

The quad sites do tend to be significantly more painful (and more debilitating when so) than the Glute sites IME.

If I have a painful product i avoid quad sites as even if i get pain elsewhere, no other site will restrict my movement so much as the quad being out of action will.


#14

Great advice from 5.0. Good to see you back, bud. Please stick around.

One thing I wanted to add. Just buy your oil at the grocery store. Soybean or or grapeseed oil work great. Plain old Wesson oil is fine. It's just as good as the RLS' "USP" oil, at about 1/10th the price.

Also, I like 20ml syringes, they are very diverse.

And, jeez, while I'm at it, one more thing, courtesy of my sensei providing you the filtering info on this very thread, who helped me through a panicky time on my very first homebrew attempt: Get you a caulking gun and some washers. Put the washers over the tip of the syringe, between the barrel and the filter, and stick the syringe in the gun before attempting to filter. You will completely understand why if you try pushing down the plunger and trying to get 10 or 20mls of oil through a damned .22um using just your thumb.

I'm so happy at this point in my brewing career to not even be using the caulking gun anymore, outside of special circumstances. Bottle-top filters are absolute heaven.


#15

But Cortes - doesn't it need to be sterile oil?


#16

I realize you are not asking me, but...once you filter through your .22 micron filter, it will be sterile. It's the filter, not the heat that captures/cleans out any microbes you don't want in there. Cortes is dead on with the regular oils...RLS wants $10 for 100mls unfiltered oil. Don't waste your money, just get something at the supermarket.


#17

plus wesson plain old vegetable oil produces a nice thin substrate that flows very easily through smaller pins, i would never use anything else.


#18

Yup. Just to emphasize this point: Plain old store bought highly processed oil works great. An unopened bottle is pretty close to sterile already. Filtration is the MOST important aspect of homebrewing, and you are going to have to do this anyway. Heating is for dissolving the hormone, and in many cases heat is not even necessary. 5.0's suggestion of heat above is to assure proper mixture of new and old oils so you get a reliable dosage from each subsequent shot.

You could buy RLS' prefiltered oil.

You could also burn bundles of hundred dollar bills for heat.

Call me old fashioned, but I'd just as soon save those bills, and throw some plain old mesquite logs into my fireplace.


#19

Good point - thanks for clarifying and thanks for all the information above.


#20

Guys - I'm sorry to harp on this but back to my leg....

I know that it has only been 2 days but it is still hurting a lot - some of the swelling seems to have gone down but there is an area about the size of a fist that is slightly elevated on my thigh and it is very tender to touch. I am slightly limping when I walk and taking stairs is a b!tch. I am really nursing it...I would say at best that the pain has not improved at all over the past couple of days although my whole thight is not swollen anymore so that is an improvement.

I am resisting consulting my doctor because it goes on my health record and has certain implications...

Question is - at what point should I go see a doctor? I don't want to go into septic shock or some sh!t. Also, at what point should I consider draining it (that thought really creeps me out).

EDIT
On a scale of 0 to 10 the pain is a 0 at rest but if I try to use it, I would say the pain is about a 5 or 6.