T Nation

Massive Eating Question


#1

Would an apple and peanut butter count as a P+F even though the apple has about 17g of carbs? I know the articles say to eat veggies or a piece of fruit with every meal. I notice most veggies are fairly low carb but the apple is pretty high.

My thought is to eat 4 tbps of Natural pb and an apple for my morning snack.

Thanks for the input.

Todd


#2

Where's the protein? You've got good fat and a high-fiber, low GI carb. You can have an apple with a P + F meal. But peanut butter does not have enough protein in it. You've got about 440 calories there. Add a scoop of Low-Carb Grow! or some other protein. If you want it to stay around those same calories, drop a tbps of the PB.


#3

Hey Todd. In his review of JB's articles called "The Essential Berardi", Chris Shugart says

" In some meals, eat protein with carbs, but very little fat (less than 5 grams).

In other meals, eat protein with fat, but very little carbs (less than 10 grams)".

I have been on the Massive Eating plan myself for several weeks now, and I usually try to follow these numbers regarding meal combos.

By the way, you know that PB, (even the natural kind), has carbs in it right? The kind I use has 6g/2T serving. Assuming your apple has 17g, this plus 2 servings of PB would be around 30g of carbs in a P+F meal. So I guess the answer is no, that meal wouldn't work for a P+F. Try either PB and a vegetable, like celery, or PB mixed into some Chocolate Low-Carb Grow!


#4

It has about 16 grams and my total for the day is already about 250g. I weigh about 190lbs. I think I'm already good for total protein? With all the fat from the pb I should be decent on total fat also.

It's recomended to get about 30% of my calories from fat, so I took my total calories, divided by 30%, then divided by 9 cals per gram of fat to get how many grams I should have. Is that the right method?


#5

Yes your right, my break down is this. Cals 500, fat 32g, carb 29g and protein 16g. The celery thing is a great option that I had not considered. Thanks I will probably do that.

I'd like to add more fruit in. My current meal before work out is something like Chicken and some veggies which is not really a fat or carb meal. Think I should add the apple hear and make it a P+C before I hit the gym?

I think overall that would work pretty well.


#6

It doesn't sound to me like you're doing Massive Eating correctly. You can limit the carbs more in P + F meals as the previous poster suggested. I personally am not too strict and will have fruit with some P + F meals.

Much more important for you, I think, would be to get a proper amounts of the macros in your P + F and P + C meals. Don't just have a fat-heavy meal (peanut butter) and a protein heavy meal (chicken). Do a better job of distributing.

I think turning your chicken and veggie meal into a P + C meal is an excellent idea. To keep the fat down, make sure to not eat the chicken skin.


#7

OK I agree here on the wheres the protein ion that combo. Add a Grow! shake and that is Golden IMO.

I do have to disagree on the point that some people take this. I mean damn the point is to limit the mixing of C&F. Like dont have pancakes coated in butter and corn syrup along side a sausage.

Apples and Natural peanut butter are both excellent food choices and IMO can fit into massive eating.

Just my 2 cc,
Phill


#8

Thanks guys. I thought I read somewhere in his article that you want veggies and/or fruit with every meal. It might be the 7 habbits.

If I eat a boneless skinless breast with half a bag or veggies it is still only about 10 carbs or less. I almost need to add either fruit or whole grain bread to the mix.

I'm trying to lose some fat so I really want to watch my total carbs.

Cals 2805
Fat 77.5
Carb 174
Protein 291

That is my total for work out days with a serving of Surge included. Non work out days will not have the Surge but similar foods. I know I need more food but reloaded suggests to start with what your currently eating and add every two weeks.

Thoughts? PS, it's nice to be able to discuss these thoughts I keep having.

Todd


#9

Yeah. I do get a little nit-picky sometimes. I try to follow the program to the letter until I get the experience to tinker with it; I haven't been following this program for a long enough period of time to do that yet.


#10

No that if fine, I want to be picky to.. I want this to work. Like I said I thought somewhere I read you don't count the carbs in the veggies and fruit.. I'll look around and see if I can find it. I know in his 7 habits article he says to have veggies with every meal. I can only assume you have to not count them or often it would be hard to have a P+F meal.. Of coarse you can eat alot of brocoli and keep under 10 carbs..

Thanks for pointing out the apple, this is the support I am looking for.


#11

Next question, in reloaded I Dr. B says to take bi weekly checks to see if you are reaching your goals.. So say I added 250 cals and this week I noticed I lost some BF and my weight is the same, Gained lean.. He says to keep it the same if that is my goal.

I wonder, if I just hit the magic threshold that allows this, would adding another 250cals let me gain lean mass even faster? I guess another way to word it. If I reach the point my body is changing for the positive, is there a benefit to keep upping the calories? Should I keep adding till I no longer see the positive growth?


#12

If your scale weight is not changing, and your BF is dropping, that means you are adding muscle. Increasing your LBM will also increase your metabolism.

So in order to even hold steady, you would probably have to increase you caloric intake some just to break even.

Hope that makes sense.


#13

Thanks Rainjack.

Can anyone comment whether I am calculating my fat percentage correctly? I found online that a gram of fat has 9 calories, so I just divided it out.

I'm currently at about 24% which I think could be a little higher. I'm also about 25% carbs. Since I am trying to drop some body fat I think I need to keep these lower. Do you think I should have more than that?

Any ideas how to get my tuna salad into more of a P+F instead of just a P meal?


#14

Olive oil. Maybe in the form of storebought or homemaid vinaigrette dressing. Perhpas toss down a few fish oil pills with it.


#15

Regarding the fat and carbs combination - you can pretty much ignore fruits and veggies - he's mostly talking about grains. This only works to a point though, if you have 2 cups of carrots, that's a lot of carbs and will have an insulin respnse. I'm pretty strict so I only have my fruits with my P+C meals.

One tip - it's recommended to have a P+F meal before lifting as this will increase the fat burned and create a greater insulin response to Surge - thus increasing protein synthesis while also increasing fat burning. However, some people have shitty workouts without carbs before, so try it out.

You're correct in that 9 cals are in each gram of fat - and starting at 30% is probably a safe place - however be aware much of this is individual based on insulin sensitivity and such - I happen to have some insensitivity so I do much better with a higher percentage of fat - like 40-50%. Also, if you're trying to drop fat mass and thus want to keep carbs low - add more protein - Dr Berardi recommends lots of protein - even 2g/lb isn't that much so don't feel like it is. Also, depending on your body you'll probably want between 100-200g of carbs - you'll need to experiment a bit.

As far as how to adjust your calories - the basic deal is it depends on your lifting program. It's the training that decides what calories come on or off as muscle or fat - so just keep adjusting until you reach the limit that you want. I.e. if gaining 1 lb of fat for every 4 lbs of muscle is fine with you go for that - it all depends on your goals. But if you're gaining muscle and no fat - you'll probably want to increase cals. If you can be patient and disciplined - go slow and steady and you'll get to the right place and learn a lot about how your body responds to eating and training.

Don't forget the value of a food and training log - it will make future goals that much easier.

You're on the right track keep going.

BTW - I combine cottage cheese and peanut butter in a food processor and put that over celery - it's quite good - you just have to work out the consistency.

As far as adding more fat to tuna salad - omega-3's in the form of fish oil is perfect. Also flaxseed oil or Udo's Choice are good - most people take them straight from a tablespoon. Also - cheese may or may not work. I do well with cheese but not everyone - try it out.

And I can't finish without mentioning spinach. If you want to follow massive eating and Dr. Berardi to the T, you can't forego this veggie. It's jam-packed with everything you need with such few cals it doesn't interfere with anything. Throw some olive oil and vinegar and some other veggies and make a salad.

Keep working at it.

-J


#16

Goldin. Wow!

I eat spinach in my omelet every morning and I try to have a Chicken breast salad at lunch, spinach leaves, carrots, tomato and any over veggies I have at the house. Ken's steak house has an Olive oil vinegrette dressing that is good and should fit the bill nicely. It is tricky to find though.

I think I have a pretty decent starting point so far.
Thanks.