# Massive Eating Question

#1

Would an apple and peanut butter count as a P+F even though the apple has about 17g of carbs? I know the articles say to eat veggies or a piece of fruit with every meal. I notice most veggies are fairly low carb but the apple is pretty high.

My thought is to eat 4 tbps of Natural pb and an apple for my morning snack.

Thanks for the input.

Todd

#2

Where's the protein? You've got good fat and a high-fiber, low GI carb. You can have an apple with a P + F meal. But peanut butter does not have enough protein in it. You've got about 440 calories there. Add a scoop of Low-Carb Grow! or some other protein. If you want it to stay around those same calories, drop a tbps of the PB.

#3

Hey Todd. In his review of JB's articles called "The Essential Berardi", Chris Shugart says

" In some meals, eat protein with carbs, but very little fat (less than 5 grams).

In other meals, eat protein with fat, but very little carbs (less than 10 grams)".

I have been on the Massive Eating plan myself for several weeks now, and I usually try to follow these numbers regarding meal combos.

By the way, you know that PB, (even the natural kind), has carbs in it right? The kind I use has 6g/2T serving. Assuming your apple has 17g, this plus 2 servings of PB would be around 30g of carbs in a P+F meal. So I guess the answer is no, that meal wouldn't work for a P+F. Try either PB and a vegetable, like celery, or PB mixed into some Chocolate Low-Carb Grow!

#4

It has about 16 grams and my total for the day is already about 250g. I weigh about 190lbs. I think I'm already good for total protein? With all the fat from the pb I should be decent on total fat also.

It's recomended to get about 30% of my calories from fat, so I took my total calories, divided by 30%, then divided by 9 cals per gram of fat to get how many grams I should have. Is that the right method?

#5

Yes your right, my break down is this. Cals 500, fat 32g, carb 29g and protein 16g. The celery thing is a great option that I had not considered. Thanks I will probably do that.

I'd like to add more fruit in. My current meal before work out is something like Chicken and some veggies which is not really a fat or carb meal. Think I should add the apple hear and make it a P+C before I hit the gym?

I think overall that would work pretty well.

#6

It doesn't sound to me like you're doing Massive Eating correctly. You can limit the carbs more in P + F meals as the previous poster suggested. I personally am not too strict and will have fruit with some P + F meals.

Much more important for you, I think, would be to get a proper amounts of the macros in your P + F and P + C meals. Don't just have a fat-heavy meal (peanut butter) and a protein heavy meal (chicken). Do a better job of distributing.

I think turning your chicken and veggie meal into a P + C meal is an excellent idea. To keep the fat down, make sure to not eat the chicken skin.

#7

OK I agree here on the wheres the protein ion that combo. Add a Grow! shake and that is Golden IMO.

I do have to disagree on the point that some people take this. I mean damn the point is to limit the mixing of C&F. Like dont have pancakes coated in butter and corn syrup along side a sausage.

Apples and Natural peanut butter are both excellent food choices and IMO can fit into massive eating.

Just my 2 cc,
Phill

#8

Thanks guys. I thought I read somewhere in his article that you want veggies and/or fruit with every meal. It might be the 7 habbits.

If I eat a boneless skinless breast with half a bag or veggies it is still only about 10 carbs or less. I almost need to add either fruit or whole grain bread to the mix.

I'm trying to lose some fat so I really want to watch my total carbs.

Cals 2805
Fat 77.5
Carb 174
Protein 291

That is my total for work out days with a serving of Surge included. Non work out days will not have the Surge but similar foods. I know I need more food but reloaded suggests to start with what your currently eating and add every two weeks.

Thoughts? PS, it's nice to be able to discuss these thoughts I keep having.

Todd

#9

Yeah. I do get a little nit-picky sometimes. I try to follow the program to the letter until I get the experience to tinker with it; I haven't been following this program for a long enough period of time to do that yet.

#10

No that if fine, I want to be picky to.. I want this to work. Like I said I thought somewhere I read you don't count the carbs in the veggies and fruit.. I'll look around and see if I can find it. I know in his 7 habits article he says to have veggies with every meal. I can only assume you have to not count them or often it would be hard to have a P+F meal.. Of coarse you can eat alot of brocoli and keep under 10 carbs..

Thanks for pointing out the apple, this is the support I am looking for.

#11

Next question, in reloaded I Dr. B says to take bi weekly checks to see if you are reaching your goals.. So say I added 250 cals and this week I noticed I lost some BF and my weight is the same, Gained lean.. He says to keep it the same if that is my goal.

I wonder, if I just hit the magic threshold that allows this, would adding another 250cals let me gain lean mass even faster? I guess another way to word it. If I reach the point my body is changing for the positive, is there a benefit to keep upping the calories? Should I keep adding till I no longer see the positive growth?

#12

So in order to even hold steady, you would probably have to increase you caloric intake some just to break even.

Hope that makes sense.

#13

Thanks Rainjack.

Can anyone comment whether I am calculating my fat percentage correctly? I found online that a gram of fat has 9 calories, so I just divided it out.

I'm currently at about 24% which I think could be a little higher. I'm also about 25% carbs. Since I am trying to drop some body fat I think I need to keep these lower. Do you think I should have more than that?

Any ideas how to get my tuna salad into more of a P+F instead of just a P meal?

#14

Olive oil. Maybe in the form of storebought or homemaid vinaigrette dressing. Perhpas toss down a few fish oil pills with it.

#15

Regarding the fat and carbs combination - you can pretty much ignore fruits and veggies - he's mostly talking about grains. This only works to a point though, if you have 2 cups of carrots, that's a lot of carbs and will have an insulin respnse. I'm pretty strict so I only have my fruits with my P+C meals.

One tip - it's recommended to have a P+F meal before lifting as this will increase the fat burned and create a greater insulin response to Surge - thus increasing protein synthesis while also increasing fat burning. However, some people have shitty workouts without carbs before, so try it out.

You're correct in that 9 cals are in each gram of fat - and starting at 30% is probably a safe place - however be aware much of this is individual based on insulin sensitivity and such - I happen to have some insensitivity so I do much better with a higher percentage of fat - like 40-50%. Also, if you're trying to drop fat mass and thus want to keep carbs low - add more protein - Dr Berardi recommends lots of protein - even 2g/lb isn't that much so don't feel like it is. Also, depending on your body you'll probably want between 100-200g of carbs - you'll need to experiment a bit.

As far as how to adjust your calories - the basic deal is it depends on your lifting program. It's the training that decides what calories come on or off as muscle or fat - so just keep adjusting until you reach the limit that you want. I.e. if gaining 1 lb of fat for every 4 lbs of muscle is fine with you go for that - it all depends on your goals. But if you're gaining muscle and no fat - you'll probably want to increase cals. If you can be patient and disciplined - go slow and steady and you'll get to the right place and learn a lot about how your body responds to eating and training.

Don't forget the value of a food and training log - it will make future goals that much easier.

You're on the right track keep going.

BTW - I combine cottage cheese and peanut butter in a food processor and put that over celery - it's quite good - you just have to work out the consistency.

As far as adding more fat to tuna salad - omega-3's in the form of fish oil is perfect. Also flaxseed oil or Udo's Choice are good - most people take them straight from a tablespoon. Also - cheese may or may not work. I do well with cheese but not everyone - try it out.

And I can't finish without mentioning spinach. If you want to follow massive eating and Dr. Berardi to the T, you can't forego this veggie. It's jam-packed with everything you need with such few cals it doesn't interfere with anything. Throw some olive oil and vinegar and some other veggies and make a salad.

Keep working at it.

-J

#16

Goldin. Wow!

I eat spinach in my omelet every morning and I try to have a Chicken breast salad at lunch, spinach leaves, carrots, tomato and any over veggies I have at the house. Ken's steak house has an Olive oil vinegrette dressing that is good and should fit the bill nicely. It is tricky to find though.

I think I have a pretty decent starting point so far.
Thanks.