T Nation

Massive Eating Query

I have just read John Berardi’s Massive Eating part 2 and have a question regarding the 3 protein/carb meals and the 3 protein/fat meals that I should eat each day.
Is there any particular order in which I should have these meals?
Pre/Postworkout and the rest of the day.
Many thanks in anticipation

Sorry I’m not posting to answer your question Marky Mark, but I have a question of own. I figured out my calories for bulking and the number is 3800. I respond fairly well to 30-35% carbs. This means I should get about 315 g of carbs per day, but John Berardi’s sample meals all have carbs around 50 g. If I’m going to eat 3 carb meals, each meal would have 100 g of carbs! Is this what I should be aiming for? Or should I eat more than 3 carb meals? I’m very confused, so if someone could shed some light on this, it would be greatly appreciated.

What I understand is that you should have 6 meals per day (3 protein/fat and 3 protein/carb).Depending on what percentages you would use for protein/carbs/fat you would then divide them up accordingly. For example for me my total caloric needs are 4100 cals. 50% protein is 2050 cals per day from protein which is 510g Protein divided between six meals is 85g Protein per meal. 35% Fat is 1435 cals which is 160g Fat per day but you only have fat in 3 meals which is 53g per meal. 15% cals from Carbs is 615 cals which is 154g Carbs over the three meals with protein that you dont eat fat with. Hope I haven’t confused you more than I’ve just confused myself!!

I have exactly the same questions. In fact, i have some more. I hope Mr. Berardi will clarify this for us.

Which one is better for the pre workout meal: the carb/protein or the protein/fat meal? I usually workout in the morning.

Do you have the massive version for fat loss program? or this is designed just for the bulking phase?

For the oil stuff, i usually use Udo’s choice. Have you heard of it? Is it bad?

Do you divide the calories equally? e.g. if you are supposed to eat 3600 cals in a day, this will mean that each meal will consist of 600 calories. What about the bedtime meal?

That’s it for now… thank’s a lot

Jonathan, your calories wont be the same over six meals. At the six meals I presume that your protein will be the same for all six but three of the meals you will have carbs and the other three fat. I have heard of Udo’s choice through regular visits to the forum but as I live in England it’s not a product we can get here!! A 400ml bottle of Flax over here is £10.00 which equates to around 15 bucks. What are the prices like in the US?

Mark,

Well i live in Canada and i bought udo’s oil for $17.99 (the big bottle 500 ml). I think it’s about the same. Flax oil is a bit cheaper too.

Uhmmm… so all the six meals are not the same in the quantity of calories. Now, i become more confused. Now, how to arrange which has more calories and which has less calories…

Hope Mr. Berardi clarifies this issue and our questions too.

Jonathan.

I was under the impression that the 3/3 split was a general guidline and you should adjust the ratio acordingly to how you react better (If you are insulin sensitive have a 4:2, or 5:1 carb meal:fat meal ratio; if you are not reverse it). As for which is recomended for the pre-workout meal I would also like john’s opinion.

I just thought I’d try to make some sense/clarification out of the whole shabang, which by the way seems to be one heck of a plan. For me, I’ve been planning my nutrition around what has worked well for others and general plans, all the while not really focusing on how the plans were affecting me personally. I’m totally stoked about Massive Eating, and I just want to thank JB again for sharing and helping me out. (At the moment I’m doing the insulin sensitivity/glucose tolerance testing:-)

First off, I think Jude hits it right on the head about meal combinations. JB made a point out saying that the three and three split was just a general approach and is likely the one that people with normal sensitivity respond well to (this would be the isocaloric plan). If one has excellent insulin sensitivity/glucose tolerance, then JB suggested that these individuals would probably do better with a four or more protein/carb meals and only two or so protein/fat meals (50:25:15 carb:protein:fat plan). Someone with very poor sensitivity would go with more fat meals than carb meals. These are individualized approaches, and it's important to remember that JB said these approaches were best in maximizing one's muscle:fat ratio during a gaining phase. Again, JB also recommended giving each of them a shot over the course of eight weeks to see how you respond (individual differences).

As far as exact meal composition at different times of the day, I can't say for certain here, as I question this myself. However, you may recall that JB said chronically high levels of insulin and carbs are not good and can cause resistance. As far as preworkout meals, I presented this same question to JB himself in a former thread and he spilled the beans on his pregame meal: 8 oz. of beef and some omega-3s (don't know the total calories here) about 1-1.5 hours prior to training; he also consumes a carb drink (Gatorade, 33g) during training. Of course, I don't think there's any question that the post-workout meal(s) is carb/protein. As far as splitting the meals up, remember, this is Massive Eating, so although the numbers may work out to be huge for each of the six or so meals, I have to believe that you guys are on track. Don't take my word for it though...we all know that JB's the man, and this is his world, and we're all just a bunch o' squirrels tryin' to get a nut.:-)

Timbo, you crack me up buddy! Thanks for jumping in and doing some of my work for me.

Guys, listen, timbo is right on. I cant prescribe individual plans for each and every one who reads the article. That’s why I put in the caveats about PERSONAL insulin sensitivity and PERSONAL experimentation. I was just trying to lay out general guidelines. In addition, you dont have to stick with 6 meals. My cal needs are 5K so I usually go 7 or 8 meals. Finally, the meals dont have to be balanced perfectly. Here are the proportions for what I play around with in my diet:

600-700kcals 40%p 50%c 10%f for the carb plus protein meals; 600-700kcals 50%p 10%c 40%f for the protien plus fat meals.

Now, when I do 1/2 my meals p+c and 1/2 p+f, when all is said and done, at the end of the day Im getting about 40%p 30%c and 30%f.

However I handle carbs better than fats (insulin sensitive) so I just eat 5 meals of p+c and 2-3 meals p+f.

If you are insulin insensitive or respond better to fat, do the opposite.

And finally, yes, it's alot of protein, carbs and fats. Sometimes I miss the mark becasue of life in general but Im usually dead on with the cals.

Hope this helps

Does anyone know how many calaries are in the meals that J.B gives in the second part of the Massive eating plan? I hate counting.

JB, man am I glad I crack you up…you really took a load off me there, as I thought I was overstepping my grounds. It’s all fun stuff though, and if I think I can lend a hand, that I will do obligingly. JB, I want to thank you again for bringing this program to my attention and helping me realize the importance of INDIVIDUALIZATION. I also really appreciate you spending so much time on the forum answering all our minutinae questionaires. I was all about testing my insulin sensitivity/glucose tolerance today. Fortunately I had access to all the supplies needed, and more importantly the test info. My results looked like this: Fasted Blood Glucose: 52 mg/dl; 15-min BG: 80 mg/dl; 30-min BG: 89 mg/dl; 60-min BG: 63 mg/dl; (here’s where it gets wierd) 90-min BG: 84 mg/dl; 120-min BG: 66 mg/dl. I think this is good in terms of insulin sensitivity. Regardless, I’m ready to get damn huge, boyz!

Timbo, Youve got great glucose tolerance, man. Did you get the insulin measure too? That’s pretty important and probably tells you more than the glucose stuff.

Doh! (my best Homer Simpson impersonation) I was under the impression the glucometer testing (oral glucose) was a determinant of both insulin sensitivity and glucose tolerance. Damn, you mean not only do I have to get my blood drawn again (third time in two weeks–testosterone and pituitary tests) but I’ve got to fast, not eat protein first thing in the morning and not exercise for 24 hours!?! This is brutal, JB;-) Seriously, the glucometer test does not indicate insulin sensitivity? The reason I thought it did was because the table listed in Part Deux listed Excellent Insulin Sensitivity and Glucose Tolerance in the same column…

all this Massive Eating sounds good and all but a little too much work if you ask me. Most people probably don’t have the time to figure out all that stuff and plan every single meal, calories, carbs, protein, and fat. I’m not against, hell I’m for it, but I’ve done it and I got burned out pretty fast. Now that I work full time and go to school full time I really have been struggling in the nutrition department. This week is spring break and I think I’ll take some time to plan my meals for my upcoming cycle. Needless to say, I will use John’s Massive Eating recommendations when I eventually go on a cutting cycle. Obviously I’ll reduce calories and I’ll call it… Massive Cutting.

JB,

You mention that during the massive eating program, some additional fat is fine. But how fine is fine? I mean how much additional inches on your abs are considered to be fine?

Thank’s