T Nation

Massive Eating Gains

Ive been following the principles Massive Eating for 3 weeks (without logging calories) and have been drinking post workout shakes as close as I can get to Mr Berardi’s post workout recommendations (one immediately after, one an hour later, but a pretty regular semi hydrolysed, wpi and casin blend). My only other supplements now or ever have been a multi, c and e. Using Tanita scales, in the first 2 weeks my weight went up 3 pounds and my bodyfat came down (14.5 to 14 normal setting(6% athlete setting)). In that last week I increased calories and workout intensity generally and, by the Tanita scales, have gained 5.2 pounds and my bodyfat has come down (14 to 13% normal, 6% to 5% athlete). This was using a basic 4 day split of about 6 working sets per body part at night after work. Yes I am a relative newbie (12 months serious commitment, 12 pounds lean gains after dieting down from 25 pounds all up gain) and part of the last gain may come from being more full/carbed up but the mirror confirms good gains without fat. I am absolutely thrilled with this cause I can keep all of these gains instead of having to lose some of them in a fat loss diet! No more half hearted approach to diet/gains cause of concerns about getting fat. Sorry to sound like an infomertial but I wanted to spread the word of how effective these articles are to anyone who hasnt tried it and to thank Mr Berardi for his brilliant work.

Thanks for the update, Dre. Anyone else try it so far?

Hey, Dre, thanks for the update, bro. Sounds like you’ve done some damn good work, my man. Definitely kudos to my dog JB…he’s a helluva intelligent guy and one buff dude too. Anyway, how many calories are you consuming (is that the amount as calculated using the articles)? And what meal combos and ratios are you utilizing? Thanks, Dre, and keep whoopin’ ass, bro.

Dre…thanks a LOT for the update. I intend on doing massive eating with a finasol cycle…and cannot wait to see the results after your post. Keep them coming…it fires me up to try it out!

‘Sup Dre, keep their heads ringin’ bud. Yeah, thanks for the update, that’s some very impressive and promising results that you’ve achieved, congrats. I have employed JB’s meal combos and am working my way in calories to the point where I need to be. That being said, even though you didn’t log calories, have you been getting in about the amount you calculated? Also, what meal combinations and ratios have you been using? Thanks, Dre, and keep it up, bro.

Sup Timbo - keep bringin those dope beats to step to ;). To be honest I just did 6 meals 35gms protein, 3 with 1-2 spoons of flax and 3 with generous carbs and then adjusted extra carbs to those meals and added the odd extra meal to get the scales moving. Out for a few days but Im sticking with the massive eating diet and 4 day split - still …

Well its been a few weeks for me and Im up 7lbs so far and feeling damn good. My pumps are so crazy it feels weird. Strength is up and Im looking a bit leaner and definitely more vascular. Im at 4600 cals per day and do 4 protein and carb meals and 3 prptein and fat meals per day. If your considering it, quit your stalling and start eating. The only trick is in the meal planning

Thunder, that’s awesome, bro! You and Dre are really kickin’ some tail and look to have possibly accomplished exactly what JB wants for us all: what works best for the individual.

Thunder, I see that you mentioned your meal combos, but you also mentioned timing–which is extremely critical–so would you mind sharing how you decided to split up meals, on both training and recovery days? Thanks, Thunder, and you and Dre keep packin’ on the LBM, baby!

Wow it certainly is Dre Day, and thundrr thats just plain awesome. What up Timbo. how’s massive eating goin for you? Well i’ve been on for about 2 weeks religously , the other 2 were kinda shitty. I am supposed to be gnawin around 3800 kcals a day but i’m only at 3100 over 7 meals now, i’m trying to work my way up. I find it difficult to hit that mark w/under 70 carbs a meal or 30 grams of fat . right now i’m doin 4 carb/pro. 3 fat /pro. 330 grams of protein, 260 grams of carbs and 80 grams of fat. I have a fat pro meal for breakfast, then 4 carb pro, then 2 fat pro at night. I’m thinking of making my first 4 meals carb/pro. i noticed some extra fat around my waist, not too encouraging but i’m not gonna let my mind get me. I just sarted 12 weeks to superstrength…and then limping next week. How about you guys. what kinda workouts u guys using? cardio? supps? Hit me back. Mike

Congratulations! Lately, i’ve been using a formula which has caused me to increase post-workout calories almost three-fold. The formula is as follows; two grams/kilo of bodyweight of carbs (maltodextrin) and .5 grams/kilo of bodyweight of protein (WPI). The total calorie intake post-workout is roughly 1,000 calories! At last weigh-in I was up to 240lbs from a previous 227! Post-workout nutrient intake has been 'till now the most over-looked aspect of training!

Congrats to Thunder and Dre. I’m trying to do the “Don’t Diet” version right now. Instead of the carb/protein for the first three meals and protein/fat for the last three, I switched it around. The reason being, it seems to me that it is much more difficult for me to cut the carbs out later in the day if I start the day eating carbs. I find it easier to begin the day eating no carbs then adding it back in later. I sleep much better that way. Plus, by eating no carbs in the morning, I can enjoy my morning French roast coffee without fear of caffeine-induced hypoglycemia, which John B warns about. So far it is going pretty well, but I’ve already gained 15 lbs (fat and muscle) from a very lean condition by eating “massively,” so I’m going to try to maintain, or even lean out slightly before trying to gain some more muscle. I think John is right about insulin sensitivity being lower in the evening, but I wonder if that is due to a full day of eating carbs…Anyway, I’m going to tweak it a bit for the next few weeks and post the results.

Thanks for all the props guys. Well, lets see…For starters my protein is around 350gms, carbs are about 450gms and fat is around 150gms. it works out almost exactly to 30/40/30. Technically my calories should be a little higher but I feel the size of each of my 7 meals per day is big enough and there isnt any way for me to add an 8th meal. Speaking of which, I have no idea how Berardi can keep his carbs to under 80 and fat to under 30 unless hes playing with a different macronutrient profile or getting more than 7 meals in. i dont let my carbs go past a bit over 100gms and fat to around 45gms. i usually train around 6pm or so, so on training days my first 3 meals are protein and carbs and then preworkout and extra lean ground beef and whole eggs. post workout is obviously protein and carbs and then the last two are protein and fat. if im not training, i go first two protein and carbs, next one protein and fat, next two protein and carbs and last two protein and fat. its been working really well and i look awesome after a workout cause the pumps are really crazy. i have used tribex since i started for the simple reason it makes me very hungry. heres another observation – i used to do the whole mixed meal deal; you know protein carbs and some fats in every meal to slow digestion. however now with keeping the fat to a minimum in these protein and carb meals i am so damn hungry so soon after. its great. let me know if there is anything you want to know.

I did the diet for two weeks and put on an additional 2 % bodyfat, but I think that was caused by a heavy drinking night. So I went off for two weeks and haven’t gotten the fat off, so I am going on it again.

This time I going to lower my calories. Plus I think I am going to substitute flaxseed oil for cheese and highfat meats for the protein+fat meals. Another interesting thing I like to go back and forth between protein+fat and carb+protein accept at night.

Thanks for all the props - Ive had computer access trouble so I couldnt respond. The workouts have been 4 day split, 2-3 exercises/bodypart, 2-3 working sets/bodypart 10-12 reps (King says best for hypertrophy for 1 year training age) focusing on 3-4 second eccentric. Been using at least 2-4 forced reps/negatives per bodypart (rare for me) and, as ever, focusing first up for each workout on the bigger ticket lifts for each bodypart like deads, weighted chins, bent barbell row, wide grip bench/incline, behind neck seated press, standing barbell curls, skull crushers/narrow bench, seated calf raise, weighted leg lifts and weighted incline situps. I’m now reducing working sets to see how this goes and will then go back to similar working sets with more weight/6 reps.
Dropped most leg work (including squats) for the month which seems to help avoid overtraining and I am getting the visible upper body gains but legs are back in this month
DRINKING is a major point for me - I used to have a drink or two during the week and then go out on the weekend for a 20-30 bourbon binge. I knew it was affecting my gains and bodyfat and cut it out for 6 weeks or so (and stayed in more) when I read something along the lines of “less than 2gm protein per pound, no gains. Less than 8 hours sleep, no gains. Drinking alcohol, no gains.” The lifestyle adjustment has made a huge difference but Id still say Mr Berardi’s meal combos are the massive difference cause I’m eating more than ever (hopefully less likely to overtrain), growing, and if anything, getting leaner so Im comfortable going all out with food and weights.
No sups other than protein and vitamins as mentioned. Thinking of using creatin but the reports of gains after coming off are mixed.

I just started (actually)the massive eating today. I don;t measure my body fat. But i think i am roughly at 12 to 14% body fat. I just need to flex a little bit to show my abs. I am skinny though.
I am supposed to be at 3500 but now i am at 3200. I can’t manage to eat a lot since my final exams are coming next week. Gotta study lots and lots.

Anyway, i don’t understand how JB can have meals with carbs less than 80 g with 5000 cals a day. I think he has 10 meals or more with 3 protein/fat meals.

I have 7 meals with the 7th being Grow! right before bedtime. The first 4 are carb/protein and the last 2 except Grow are protein and fat.
These are my proportion for nonworkout days: meal 1=2 --> 105 carbs and 39 protein. meal 3 and 4–> 90 c/38 p. meal 5 and 6 --> 47 p and 20 g fat. I use advanced protein and flax oil for the protein/fat meals.
This gives total of 3200 cals.

On workout days. This is what i have:
pre-workout: 120c/40p; post: 102c/34p; 2h later: 90c/39p; 3h later: 79c/41p. Then, the last 2 meals are protein/fat with 47p/20f.
Grow! is the last meal before bedtime.

What do you guys think? Is this bad at all?

Actually, i started the program last week with 2900 cals because i am afraid i will be adding too much muscle BUT i even lost some fat on my abs with no muscle loss at all.

I will post this in the front as well to get comments straight from JB.