T Nation

Mass Development

Hello all. First specs on me:
19yrs
6’3"
170lbs
athletic

I have lifted in the past in order to gain size, but nothing has worked ever. I have eaten right, seen a nutritionist and what-not, nothing gives me results. I play ice hockey and I am scrawny. Want to add size.

I am currently taking CytoGainer with a 3gcreatine content twice a day. I did no loading and what not. I also have a GNC Creatine Plus bottle unopened sitting downstairs.

My questions are:

  1. What should my creatine intake be being that one shake contains 3g and one serving of creatine plus contains 5g. How about for loading, and for regular everyday use.

  2. Can anyone recommend a pre-written workout to use please?

I want this to be very safe and effective as I only have until ice hockey season starts up. Thanks for any help.

[quote]Exdeus wrote:
Hello all. First specs on me:
19yrs
6’3"
170lbs
athletic

I have lifted in the past in order to gain size, but nothing has worked ever. I have eaten right, seen a nutritionist and what-not, nothing gives me results. I play ice hockey and I am scrawny. Want to add size.

I am currently taking CytoGainer with a 3gcreatine content twice a day. I did no loading and what not. I also have a GNC Creatine Plus bottle unopened sitting downstairs.

My questions are:

  1. What should my creatine intake be being that one shake contains 3g and one serving of creatine plus contains 5g. How about for loading, and for regular everyday use.

  2. Can anyone recommend a pre-written workout to use please?

I want this to be very safe and effective as I only have until ice hockey season starts up. Thanks for any help.[/quote]

here’s some info I would have liked when I was a skinny fucker around your age…it would have saved me a good few years of not getting the results that I wanted…

  1. read this article: 6 Skinny-Guy Mistakes by Dr. John M. Berardi

  2. toss all that stupid creatine bullshit in the trash…spend your money on steak, chicken, fish, milk, etc…

  3. there are a shit-load of great mass building routines on this web site…use the search function and choose one you like…they all work.

  4. good luck

[quote]DPH wrote:
here’s some info I would have liked when I was a skinny fucker around your age…it would have saved me a good few years of not getting the results that I wanted…

  1. read this article: 6 Skinny-Guy Mistakes by Dr. John M. Berardi

  2. toss all that stupid creatine bullshit in the trash…spend your money on steak, chicken, fish, milk, etc…

  3. there are a shit-load of great mass building routines on this web site…use the search function and choose one you like…they all work.

  4. good luck[/quote]

Good advice. But he can keep the creatine. You don’t need any sort of fancy creatine drink/powder/concotion. Just a good creatine powder that you can mix in with your post-workout shake or with some water or juice.

You don’t need to load creatine. I’d say that 5-10 grams a day is fine. I typically put 10 grams in my post-workout shake (Surge).

Definitely read some of the nutritional articles on the site. You can definitely eat more food and pack on the mass. Train hard. Give it time. Read and learn.

[quote]Exdeus wrote:
I have lifted in the past in order to gain size, but nothing has worked ever. I have eaten right, seen a nutritionist and what-not, nothing gives me results. I play ice hockey and I am scrawny. Want to add size.[/quote]

If your focus is on weight gainers and creatine it’s no wonder that you haven’t made much progress.

As previously recommended, read John Berardi’s nutritional advise and select any of the appropriate training programs found here. I prefer those by Chad Waterbury.

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
Good advice. But he can keep the creatine.
[/quote]

for most 19 year olds on a tight buget…every penny wasted on creatine could be spent on better products like food and Grow!..

creatine is not effective enough to justify spending ANY money on it…

I recommend that this kid buy food, Grow!, and more food with his money…

years from now after he’s made significant progress and gains are much more difficult to come by then MAYBE he could justify spending money on creatine…until then, forget it.

Creatine is cheap nowadays! You can easily get 1000-1500 grams for like $10-15!

But yes, I agree that food and something like Grow! and Surge should be the priorities in addition to his training.

[quote]DPH wrote:
Nate Dogg wrote:
Good advice. But he can keep the creatine.

for most 19 year olds on a tight buget…every penny wasted on creatine could be spent on better products like food and Grow!..

creatine is not effective enough to justify spending ANY money on it…

I recommend that this kid buy food, Grow!, and more food with his money…

years from now after he’s made significant progress and gains are much more difficult to come by then MAYBE he could justify spending money on creatine…until then, forget it.[/quote]

Exceptionally good advice!

Ex - I have to disagree with some the posts on here. Creatine is dirt cheap these days and there are few supps out there that can give you the most bang for your buck. Creatine advice - no need to load. 5gr a day is plenty. Take it on days you lift POST workout with grape juice. There is recent evidence that suggests mixing it with hot liquids works well. Just buy plain old creatine and none of the fancy nonsense that is pre-made. On days you don’t lift, still take in 5gr. I’d cycle it - 12 weeks on then take a month or so off.

I do agree that you need to get your diet in order though. I know easier said then done. Lift heavy weights, eat as much and as clean as you can. Lots of protein and if you have a hard time getting enough protein in then buy a basic protein powder. And stay the hell away from GNC. Anything you buy there can be bought cheaper anywhere else.

Alrighty. As far as eating, I do eat very well and healthy. I eat lots of protein and such. My problem is I have never gotten any results from anything. I got much much stronger, but never put on the size that I need. Hell, I never put on any size.
Not only is it just for hockey but its honestly an insecurity of mine that I cant stand.

What is this Grow! thing you all keep mentioning? I googled it but came back with nothing. The creatine I havent loaded yet and probably wont, I just do that shake 3 times a day, once in the morning, once after a workout or lunch on off-days, and once before bed. That gives me 9g creatine in a day, which isnt much.

This is whats in the drink: cytogainer

Im also going to put up my FitDay thing as soon as I start to get it going again.

[quote]Exdeus wrote:
Alrighty. As far as eating, I do eat very well and healthy. I eat lots of protein and such. My problem is I have never gotten any results from anything. I got much much stronger, but never put on the size that I need. Hell, I never put on any size.[/quote]

If this is the case, you don’t eat enough!

[quote]Exdeus wrote:
Alrighty. As far as eating, I do eat very well and healthy. I eat lots of protein and such. My problem is I have never gotten any results from anything. I got much much stronger, but never put on the size that I need. Hell, I never put on any size.
Not only is it just for hockey but its honestly an insecurity of mine that I cant stand.

What is this Grow! thing you all keep mentioning? I googled it but came back with nothing. The creatine I havent loaded yet and probably wont, I just do that shake 3 times a day, once in the morning, once after a workout or lunch on off-days, and once before bed. That gives me 9g creatine in a day, which isnt much.[/quote]

Exedus-you could be eating 2000 calories of the cleanest and healthiest food available and not grow. As said, you need to look at Berardi. Particularly Massive Eating! You’ll probably surprised at how much you need to eat to grow. I think ABBH-a Waterbury program is great. But any of the programs here will help you gain muscle coupled by a proper diet.

[quote]Exdeus wrote:
Alrighty. As far as eating, I do eat very well and healthy. I eat lots of protein and such. My problem is I have never gotten any results from anything. I got much much stronger, but never put on the size that I need. Hell, I never put on any size.
Not only is it just for hockey but its honestly an insecurity of mine that I cant stand.

What is this Grow! thing you all keep mentioning? I googled it but came back with nothing. The creatine I havent loaded yet and probably wont, I just do that shake 3 times a day, once in the morning, once after a workout or lunch on off-days, and once before bed. That gives me 9g creatine in a day, which isnt much.[/quote]

OK gonna be short and sweet as the others have you covered.

Not gaining. eating well. But NOT enough if you arent gaining. eat more you will have no choice but to puton weight at some point. if you arent gaining eat MORE!!!

You might post a sample day of intake. That will help.

Grow! are you blind? It is well, sold right here. You might look for the BIG ole product area rerad the info. Its top quality stuff and NADA taste better.

Hope that helps,
Phill

Okay, here is my question about CytoGainer.

I very quickly compared this to the Grow! that is sold here, and quite frankly, it has all the same stuff for the most part, in even higher doses, and it includes 3g creatine. So why is this bad?

As far as a sample of a days intake, I will post here after I get back. Im heading out to the movies.

Also, im browsing the sites but not really seeing too much in the way of actual exercise routines. Could anyone point me to a link that has some or just to one they highly recommend for a beginning-intermediate weightlifter?

Also, as I said before, I will post not only my eating habits, but I will also post my workout routine as was prescribed by a trainer. Im not too sure of it. But it will be here tonight.

Today’s training tip comes from Eric Cressey:

Higher Reps for Newbs

Beginners lack the connective tissue strength necessary to handle maximal weights. Beginners should be encouraged to train at eight reps and above as a means of improving connective tissue strength to prepare the joints for subsequent high force and velocity movements. Following 6-8 weeks of introductory loading in the 8-15 rep range, novice trainees can begin to look to heavier loading.

That was quoted from the side panel today. I am doing around 12-10-8 reps with my weights. Is that wrong?

It’s not necessarily wrong, but it’s not the best rep scheme that you could use.

[quote]Exdeus wrote:
Also, im browsing the sites but not really seeing too much in the way of actual exercise routines. Could anyone point me to a link that has some or just to one they highly recommend for a beginning-intermediate weightlifter?

Also, as I said before, I will post not only my eating habits, but I will also post my workout routine as was prescribed by a trainer. Im not too sure of it. But it will be here tonight.[/quote]

Here is Vroom’s beginner link. It has the diet and training info you need.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=640350

Don’t just post your diet here. Read all of Berardi’s articles, particularly the Massive Eating one that give you a formula to figure out how many calories you should be eating and what and when to eat. Fix your diet accordingly. I think any of those programs in the link would be a good training program.

I think Eric’s tip is good. I agree with him. But I think it’s refering to untrained, complete beginners. You seem to have been lifting for awhile even if you’ve never eaten appropriately to grow. A lower rep range such as any of these programs will have you doing, at least on some of the workouts, is most likely fine.

I am looking at what you all posted. Thank you for the info.

One program that was recommended to me on another board by several was the Home Grown Muscle program published by Mens Health with some trainers and such. It is an adapting program that changes every month. It has a printout included. If you google it, you can check it out. Anyone have any input on this one?

I"m going to go against the grain here and tell you to read up on a program called “Super Squats”.

That program will throw a bunch of meat on you quickly.

I could just tell you everything about it but that ruins the adventure of finding the gem’s yourself.

Read up on it a bunch then feel free to PM me (or make another thread if this one drops)