T Nation

Masculinity = AntiFeminity

Ive been reading a book called Overcoming Masculine Depression. Anyway there is a chapter about how the process of a boy becoming a man is so rigid an narrow, it makes a men less than human, thus leasing to depression I would imagine.

Here is a part that was interesting: The strong social disapproval of feminine behaviors in males leads people to define masculinity as anti-feminity, and so boys tend to learn what feminine behaviors are and then actively avoid them. This process leads to two profoundly negative outcomes. First, it prohibits males from engaging in a wide variety of behaviors that are satisfying, adaptive, and self-protective- for example, emotion self-disclosure, taking care of one’s body, introspection, and finding pleasure in human relationships. Second, since males are socially viewed as more important and powerful than females, antifeminity encourages people, especially males, to devalue all that is feminine, including girls and women. Perhaps the most destructive component of hypermaculine socialization is that it strongly encourages men to view women with disrespect and even contempt.

There was also a part about how baby boys are held and hugged less often than girls and when they are held they are handled roughly. I thought that was sad:( Thoughts anyone. Im really trying to get into your heads. Im tired of reading about everyone favorite movie and what they think about anal sex.

Well, I think yes and no.

My father was in Force Recon, and he is probably the toughest hardass I’ve ever known. Not quite as far as “The Great Santini” but close. Anyway, yeah I grew up basically always thinking I wasn’t tough enough, I wasn’t man enough, etc. Which was great for my self image. So… I guess if he had found a different way to encourage me to be masculine than just berating me all the time, then I would be tougher, instead of trying to be the opposite for so long.

But… I don’t think it’s the encouraging these traits that is bad, it is just the way some fathers do it. Seriously, women want men to be “masculine” sure they want them to be nice and sensitive to a degree, but not pushovers. I think, a certain degree of toughness is really part of masculinity, from way back when we were hunter-gatherers and it was the man’s job to do the hunting and fighting.

I think, this book seems to be part of the further emasculation of men that our society seems to be heading towards. All of our traits that once were thought to be good are now considered bad. And now this author contends our belief in those traits makes us feel depressed. So we should no longer believe in traditional masculine traits, but rather what… act like women! (though the author would say it’s not “acting like a woman” it’s “acting like a human being”).

But, like I said, I think, it’s more the way these traits are “encouraged”, or rather, other traits are discouraged. Like, you don’t need to make your son believe it’s bad to show your feelings, but rather, you just need to show him that it’s ok to have feelings but a man doesn’t let his feelings dictate his actions, but rather his moral judgements. Etc. Like fear is ok but you can’t let fear dictate your actions and if you do you will always be afraid, but I guess that is good advice for women.

So… ok I guess I have no idea what I mean by the above. :slight_smile:

To be a (T) man is good. To be a stupid bigoted redneck meathead is not.

It’s Just That Easy™!

No, you got it all wrong. Femininity is anti-masculinity, or was back in the day.


“Honey, don’t play with that truck. Girls don’t play with trucks.”


“Honey, don’t play so rough! You’ll rip your dress.”


Masculinity isn’t simply defined by the absence of femininity, and femininity is, in part, defined by an absence of masculinity.


d/c

I think part of the problem is defining certain characteristics as either masculine of feminine as opposed to human. I think a lot of men brought up by fathers who discourage displays of affectionate behaviour and other “feminine” characteristics, often grow to be fucked up adults. I think you need to be secure with all your own feelings and behaviours before you can understand what it is to be a man. My father was a pro football player, my boxing coach and in general a gruff, tough son of a bitch. He was also a very affectionate and gentle man. He new he was tough, everyone else new he was tough and he had nothing to prove. I believe this allowed him to be secure enough in himself to be affectionate and soft at the appropriate times. I consider myself very fortunate to have had that type of role model.

Once again we dive into a deep pile of bullshit. I have read hundreds of books, taken classes, and listened to lectures about numerous things. We over analyze everything. Raise your kids the best you know how. Love them, but also make them tough. This world doesn’t give a damn about your feelings or if you express them. It also doesn’t care about your self image. When, I was in high school I was depressed. I didn’t like myself and thought very seriously about suicide. My father realized something was wrong and talked to me. During that conversation he said the most lovong and affectionate thing I have ever heard. He said, “Son, quit being a candy ass.” My life has been great ever since. It’s great to express your feelings and all, but every now and then you need a swift kick in the ass. Before I go what role does genetics play in all of this? It may very well be the deciding factor of who is fucked up and who isn’t.

ow thats stupid "’’’’’’’'Ive been reading a book called Overcoming Masculine Depression. Anyway there is a chapter about how the process of a boy becoming a man is so rigid an narrow, it makes a men less than human, thus leasing to depression I would imagine."What the fuck?Waht does thea mean,I’m not depressed this stuff is crazy,it doesn’t even make logical sense the process from boyhood to manhood is rigid?what are they talking about does that sentence even make snese,does any of that sutff amkeany sense at all it sounds like the rantings of a schizophrenic seriosuly.I dont understnad any of that call me stupid but can someone explain the points in the masculane antifeminity post?


"Second, since males are socially viewed as more important and powerful than females, antifeminity encourages people, especially males, to devalue all that is feminine, including girls and women."ok can someone explain why?


"First, it prohibits males from engaging in a wide variety of behaviors that are satisfying, adaptive, and self-protective- for example, emotion self-disclosure, taking care of one’s body, introspection, and finding pleasure in human relationships. "Yes men never do any of these thigns we are cold robots we dotn take care of ourselves dont have freinds,dont take care of our bodys or have introspection.


ok no offense but you have to be incredibly naive or a fool to beleive this.

Great thread Roid Monkey! I couldn’t have said it better. Terminator, great message, shitty spelling. You can’t make an error every sentence. The liberals think they are more enlightened and educated. Therefore, they will automatically pigeonhole you as an unthinking meathead if you spell this way. They have to be conquered using flawless logic. It must be expressed in language that is above reproach.
I have not and will not read this book. Men need to stop listening to liberals. Tough men get the job. Tough men get the women. Tough men are feared and respected. Now to define toughness. Toughness can be defined by a man who is a true friend and a lethal enemy. He must be able to defend what he believes in. He is not afraid to tell someone that they are wrong. He doesn’t take polls to decide how to act. He knows instinctively what is right and wrong in any given situation. He is mentally and physically dominating.


I believe men should do their crying in private. I don’t see the utility in wearing your emotions on your sleeve. This just gives other people power over you. You pick a select group of trusted confidants. Only to them should you reveal your emotions.

I can spell i was just typing fast and didn’t bother to check the spelling.

Based on the excerpts you posted here, this sounds like a whiplash reaction to the idea that women are Other (de Beauvoir’s insight). That is, women are what they are not because they’re women, but because they’re not men. I remember you mentioned de Beauvoir in another post, so I’ll assume you’ve read her stuff.

I for one didn’t respond postively when I first read these ideas, and in fact, most men don’t. I remember feeling that, after reading de Beauvoir, I was somehow guilty of wrongs which I never meant to commit.

What you posted above seems like a creative Freudian inversion of this “Othering.” As I said, a lot of the original feminist literature tends to make men feel guilty because women seem victimized. It appears as though this book is trying to turn the tables.

I don’t know that it’s only guys who have rigid rules for growing up. I think girls get it just as much. Guys get told all the time to open up & talk about feelings etc & then when they finally do, they called wimps & nancy-boys. It doesn’t make sense. It’s similar with girls also. They’re not supposed to be into dirty things like sex but they get told that they should be empowered & so they go around a bit & then everyone calls them sluts/bitches etc.