T Nation

Marxist Quotes and Ideas


#1

What is your favorite marxist quote or idea?

Mine are several. Here are just some of them presented by our own President!


#2

Pay particular attention to the end. Great stuff.


#3

meh sounds more like a socialdemocrat or a leftliberal than a marxist.

If he had said something of the sort like: The working folks most bring about change themself instead of
waiting for the federal government to do it for them, they have only theire food stamps( chains ) to loose.
Then I would say that he could be somewhat marxian.


#4

And that's pretty much the long and short of your governments in Europe, but that shit doesn't fly here. There is the world and then there is the U.S. Most of the world is kinda like each other in varying degrees, the U.S. is completely unique and apart from the world.
Social and liberal democrats here tend to favor a system like those in Europe, but our economy and government structure cannot support such programs. That's really be bottom line. The size, breadth, and scope of our society could never be propped up by a government and done adequately, we are to big.
Even obama has figured out his rhetoric isn't actually possible in reality here. That's why he's failing, that's why the democrats are in deep shit, and if they don't stop with their failures they are going to get removed hard core come November '12.


#5

For the record, most socialists and leftists in my country are against joining EU because we dont want some suits in Brussel to tell us what we can or cannot do. So I understand perfectly that many of you dont want some suits in Washington dc to tell you what you can or cannot do and I understand why it is more diffucult to run a welfare program for half a continent(usa), than doing the same in a small country(norway) with a population of only 4,5 million people. I am not dumb afterall.

But my understanding of how the democrats make this social reform, it is doomed to fail. Not because social programs run by a government are descdent to fail, but because they are a product of compromising, fear of socialism and corruption. Take Obamacare for instance, its not a public health care program, its a christmass present to the insurance industry. Thats why it is excpensive, because your federal state basickly are funding the profits of the insurance companys. If they had said fuck off to the insurance companys and just made a bill that said: from now on, the states are running the health care with tax mony and no private middlemen are involved. That would have been much simpler and much more effective, heck even way cheaper to. Just how I see it and I dont except anyone in here to agree.


#6

Pretty good assessment of obamacare. They took a current shitty, outdated system and made it worse. The problem with healthcare was basically two fold. It's horrifically expensive and is rife with inefficiency. Obamacare made it more complicated and expensive, the exact opposite of what needed to happen. They drove up the insurance rates of about 150 million people to make it cheaper for 31 million. Yes, it is what it sounds like, wealth redistribution. It would have been cheaper and easier to buy 31 million people good health insurance and give it to them free for 10 years, then this disaster of a bill.
Actually, single payer would have been better than this piece of shit, BUT this one is reverse-able where a single payer system would not be. I think this thing will get legislated out of existence in a couple of years.


#7

Why wouldnt a singlepayer system( is that the same as publicsector run healthcare btw? ) be reversable. Cant a mayority in your legislative bodys abolosh it if they see fit?

In my country, our centrists and rightwing partys( that would be like the democrats in your country ) are in favor of reforming our public sector in the direction of how obamacare is done aka that instead of the state and commune to run healthcare, they want private companys to do it, but offcourse its still the taxpayer who still pays the bills.
Its a part of an reformation if you will that started back in the 90`s. Its basickly about opening the public sector up for private capital. Its often reffered to as "new public managment" and it sucks ass. Its more costly, its worse for the public employees, it demands more bureacry because its a mix of public runned and market runned and in the end
it doesnt provide any better services, at best the same standard as it was when it was 100% public. So any reform that smells of new public managment should be trown away, because in the end its basickly government handouts to private companys with taxmoney.


#8

I'm all for splitting up the states into at least two separate nations. You're absolutely correct that our size is a major hindrance.


#9

Once you create dependents, you cannot get rid of them. If you got millions of people depending on a system, changing that system becomes a major lifestyle change. That's why you must be careful what control you cede to the government; once you do, you can't get it back.


#10

I see your point, but I would say that I would be equally carefull with ceding control to commersial companys, I wouldnt like to be a dependent to a company. Afterall the people have greater influence over a public system than a privat company in a democracy.


#11

I agree but its not a zero sum game. In other words we don't have to cede control to one or the other. Companies are easier to control because they don't give anything away, and they are subject to market forces.
It may shock you though that at the worker level, I am very liberal....I am disgusted with the ease in which companies can use and shit can people with no accountability. That is something I am actually quite passionate about.


#12

Good to hear that you are passionate about the treatment of workers, that is something I wish where more common in this place. What do you regard to be the best means to prevent companys from treating people like shite?


#13

Nonsense, this is so obviously, prima facie not true, it is embarassing that that argument still pops up.


#14

Do you know that customers drop a company like its hot if someone else brings out a slightly better or cheaper product?

Consumers are company abusing bastards.


#15

Thank you Orion. This is exactly how I feel about the issue. As to how you can think any different is truly mind boggling...

Companies are slaves to the consumer in a very real way.


#16

It's like listening to James Taggart...


#17

florelius,

There is one major difference, in the US, before government involvement, regulation and subsidization; health-care was very affordable and easily accessible. The free market here was doing a great job.

But the progressives wanted a way to make money off of medicine and they made our system the expensive mess it is today. Not free market and private entities, it is the government corporatism that did it.


#18

Already been tried...spoiler alert, didnt work out so well for the group desiring a split.