T Nation

Martinez - Chavez Jr.

I didn’t see the whole thing, but I caught the last round. What a fight. Totally different styles, levels of experience, and manners of fighting at work here… any thoughts?

Chavez jr. was outclassed the majority of the fight. Quick jabs, quick shot upper cuts, or a one two and Martinez was out of counter punching range. A rematch is interesting and I think Chavez jr. can win. He really only needs to do what his dad was telling him to do for the whole fight, punches in bunches, that combined with his pace makes me think he could outpace and finish Sergio. The fight also told me that Sergio would have zero chance against Floyd.

Zero chance against floyd?? why cause he got caught with a good shot in a fight that he fought to near perfection with the exeception of the final round. Let’s not forget what an exhausting pace that was
set from the beginning of the fight. I am not saying that he would win but lets not use this fight as an example of what would happen if martinez fought mayweather. He’s a south paw and has speed, two things that have given floyd problems in the past. if chavez landed those shots on anyone they would go down, mayweather included.

Not to mention Martinez has already asked to fight either Mayweather or Pacquiao. Even saying he would take a 20/80 split. Why hasn’t either of those fights happened?? They respect Martinez’ skillset…too risky

[quote]sardines12 wrote:
The fight also told me that Sergio would have zero chance against Floyd. [/quote]

Totally illogical.

The one thing that Chavez had that gave Martinez problems was his power - power that Floyd doesn’t have.

[quote]gangstpmp3 wrote:
Zero chance against floyd?? why cause he got caught with a good shot in a fight that he fought to near perfection with the exeception of the final round. Let’s not forget what an exhausting pace that was
set from the beginning of the fight. I am not saying that he would win but lets not use this fight as an example of what would happen if martinez fought mayweather. He’s a south paw and has speed, two things that have given floyd problems in the past. if chavez landed those shots on anyone they would go down, mayweather included.[/quote]

Very true. Chavez hits as hard or harder than anyone at that weight.

Fortunately he’s not so good at the boxing part.

[quote]gangstpmp3 wrote:
Not to mention Martinez has already asked to fight either Mayweather or Pacquiao. Even saying he would take a 20/80 split. Why hasn’t either of those fights happened?? They respect Martinez’ skillset…too risky[/quote]

I don’t think it’s anything to do with Martinez’s skill set, even though, yes, he is very skilled.

It’s more to do with the fact Martinez is fucking huge. Manny only ever fought close to light middle at a catchweight of 150lbs and still came in light by 5lbs, Mayweather has only ever been up to 154 on two occasions and came in light both times.

Martinez is 5’10 and walks around at something close to 180lbs (30 days before the Williams fight he weighed 176lbs). This is essentially the equivalent of throwing floyd or pacquiao in against DLH, except not only does he have as much speed if not more than DLH, he can punch too. It’s not at all a smart fight for either of them.

Even more reason to respect Martinez. I just find it a little strange that when speaking of floyd and manny and martinez’ name is brought up, people kind of brush him aside as an after thought. A little more respect is all im saying. As far as Chavez, i don’t know if its physically possible to get in better condition but if he could learn to throw more combos he would have a better chance of stopping virtually everyone in front of him.
It would serve Martinez well to learn not to be so emotionally charged and take a full eight count if knocked down and learn how to tie up if hurt.

P.S. I like Chavez’ Killer instinct.

I know this is off topic but did anyone else see the Maidana vs. soto Karass fight Wow is all i can say

I just don’t think Martinez could pick and pop Floyd, and he’s shown enough defensive holes to make me think Floyd could land whenever he wanted.

Martinez wouldn’t pick and pop floyd. He would use a different strategy, he would have have throw a lot of punches and push the pace while avoiding the counter right.He would also need to impose his superior size on Floyd. Floyd can be tagged, just watch Mayweather vs. Cotto. I think he is really starting to slow down.

Martinez dominated that cocky bitch Chavez the whole fight played around with him until the final round which was out of control

[quote]gangstpmp3 wrote:
Martinez wouldn’t pick and pop floyd. He would use a different strategy, he would have have throw a lot of punches and push the pace while avoiding the counter right.He would also need to impose his superior size on Floyd. Floyd can be tagged, just watch Mayweather vs. Cotto. I think he is really starting to slow down.[/quote]
And he couldn’t avoid the counter if he did that. He also doesn’t have that impressive of a gas tank compared to Floyd.

Chavez got busted for pot, FYI.

Martinez is more a counter puncher, so those of you looking at the matchup between Floyd and Cotto are looking at the wrong matchup. Cotto is more a boxer puncher who can counter, Martinez is more a counter puncher who can punch on the move, it doesn’t mean he necessarily has very good movement compared to guys like Cotto or Mayweather himself.

Chavez Jr. is a destitute version of his father. He has some power but doesn’t know how to put combinations together, he doesn’t know how to cut the ring off, part of that is because he’s slow, and his handspeed is about as good as his fathers was right before he retired. Basically, he’s got legendary coaching for a refined style but his natural skill set doesn’t match it at all. He’s just not cut out to be an atg like his father unless he somehow comes up with some hand and footspeed/ or footwork. Chavez Sr. wasn’t super fast, but he was fast.

What I see Martinez doing is this, he would need to initiate exchanges and pressure Mayweather without getting countered too much. Floyd, being a counter puncher himself would catch Martinez all night with counter punches if Martinez attempted what he did vs. Chavez against Floyd, as Floyd has ZERO problem hitting a moving target and doesn’t need much, if any time to set his feet to throw.

I like that Martinez likes to move laterally, one thing I see with Mayweathers shoulder roll style that I saw exploited in his father (Floyd Mayweather Sr.) is that the shoulder roll technique leaves the left flank open for a right hook to the body, but you need to step right in order to throw it. Only guy I ever saw exploit this in an actual fight was Sugar Ray Leonard, and he racked the hell out of Mayweather Sr’s body. Trouble is, if you move right vs. a left hook puncher, you move right into the power, so there is huge risk in doing this.

Basic strategy should be to apply smart pressure and not be predictable with timing or punches, Floyd takes advantage of predictable fighters, which is why he had a harder time with Cotto. You have to get Floyd to defend and look for the counter in order to smother him and get in close, turn the angle and bang the right hook to the body before he clinches, follow it up with whatever opens up, or guard and be ready for his counter.

Hitting him to the body early will give you a shot in hell to slow him down and take some zip off his punches, slow his overall speed down for the sake of trying to get him to exchange, or turtle. Saying Floyd doesn’t have power is STUPID. A guy with speed like that doesn’t need to catch you with a singe huge shot, when you get tagged with punches you don’t see coming, they hit like bricks. He has very good placement with his punches as well which is why he does get knockouts now and then. Not saying he has huge power, but his combination of speed, timing and placement make up for it.

Good fight, Martinez is a tough SOB.

@Severino
No one said Mayweather didn’t have power of course he does and at the lighter weights he was punching through people. I don’t agree that Mayweather is better conditioned than Martinez. Mayweather’s current style allows he to conserve energy as he doesn’t move his legs for movement as much as he used to. Martinez’ fighting style involves moving quite a bit hence being a style that utilizes a lot of energy. So conditioning would be a wash at best.
p.s. I feel like the way you described Martinez fight plan is what i originally said.

Mayweather absolutely does have better conditioning than Martinez; this is not to say Martinez’s conditioning is bad at all - in fact he has great conditioning, but if you were to compare the two purely on conditioning I would place my money on money may every time.

Yes his style allows him to conserve energy quite a bit more, but the dude’s conditioning and training is insane, he’s a workhorse, sometimes he’ll spar for 20 minutes straight cycling fresh guys in.

That and Martinez is much bigger than Mayweather. Bigger body, and more muscle tissue, needs more oxygen.

@severino, with regards to exploiting the shoulder roll, I think that’s a valid critcism against Floyd Sr. However Floyd Sr often took cover behind the shoulder preemptively/prematurely leaving him open to certain shots or to be maneuvered in on, Floyd jr does not do this as often and I would argue that his defense is much evolved over what Sr taught to him alone. Another thing I noticed is FMJ utilizes much more upper body movement and movement in general than his father did.

FMJ will often sit with his chin just behind the shoulder, elbow across the front of his rib cage and wait for the right hand to come before he turns in, the window of opportunity to rake another right hand across the body is really small before a right hand is coming back your way. Certainly you’re right about SRL exploiting it against Sr, but then again, Sr was not anywhere near the fighter his son is, nor do I suppose there’s anyone in the division who can be called the caliber of SRL either, besides FMJ.