Martial Arts Philosophy

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Probably the most important thing with martial arts techniques is that usually the most effective ones are the ones that are basic. Simplicity can make a technique brutally effective.
[/quote]

I like this idea and I think it is widely applicable to any area of life. We do not need a complicated method when something simpler would be just as effective.

Save the advanced techniques for the exhibition.

Sometimes in larger scale warfare psychological stratagems are used to trick the opponent or exploit his perception of the field of battle. Are there any simple techniques like that can be employed for the solo practitioner that could help him not have to fight, for example?

22

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Sometimes in larger scale warfare psychological stratagems are used to trick the opponent or exploit his perception of the field of battle. Are there any simple techniques like that can be employed for the solo practitioner that could help him not have to fight, for example?

[/quote]

The best way to not fight, is to not provoke people. Even if it means turning the other cheek when someone disrespects you. Fighting is what you do when you have no other options.

The second best way to help yourself not have to fight, is to cultivate your awareness. Be aware of who is in your personal space. Be aware of people walking behind you on the street, of people standing near you in the bar etc. After you’ve done this for a while, you don’t have to consciously do it anymore, and you can “feel” your personal space and who is in it.

Have you ever seen a large group of dogs? They are always on alert, and ready for another dog to snap at them. You have to train yourself to have this same lingering awareness.

23

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Some people are just driven to it. It’s like how some guys grow up wanting to be cops or scientists or politicians- some of us are just born to fight.

I got into martial arts at a real young age. I was a small kid who got into fights constantly, so my old man figured I should go learn karate so I knew what I was doing. I took Goju-ryu for a long time, and was a green belt by the time I left.

I stayed out of the shit for a long time, but still always managed to have physical confrontations in one way or another.

It was really those Fight science shows that made me remember how much I loved the stuff. Combine that with an interest in boxing that started a couple years ago, as well as starting back up in Goju-ryu and working in BJJ, and that’s where I’m at.

At this point, boxing has taken over my life. I watch it constantly, I practice constantly, etc., and have again left goju-ryu. To me, there’s nothing better than two individuals who are the finest athletes on the planet having to stand in and duke it out.

I hated karate tournaments where you had to half ass because you couldn’t hit the guy hard- I guess I never quite understood fighting without fighting.

I think Xen said it once (and best)- everything in sports relates to a fight. You spike a ball after a touchdown, you’re asserting dominance. You dunk over a guy, you’re asserting dominance. If guys start poppin off about this or that while you’re playing, the ultimate decider of who is more dominant is a fight. So really, I just like stripping away all of the bullshit bravado and watching two guys bang out for is truly the tougher guy.

It’s about a lot of other things, too. Its about learning that yes, this shit can happen to you. It’s about being humbled, and knowing that there are times when you’ve been so gassed that the other guy could have ended your life, and you could not have stopped him. It’s about facing mortality… and nothing makes you realize quicker that you can die than being trapped in a triangle and starting to black out because the air is gone.

I’m not much for the spiritual stuff, though. I box and train for self defense, because I like knowing that I can handle myself. I don’t do it for the competition, because I’ve never “competed” per se… but it’s just important for me to know what I’m capable of. I’ve had enough physical confrontations that I know that this is something that I need to live, and I’ve seen enough bad, bad shit to know that I need the training.

What it comes down to, for me, is this: I’m not a violent person. I abhor fighting, and hate getting into those situations. I hate the adrenaline rush, I hate the nerves, I hate the shaking hands. I hate pissing contests, and I don’t like big mouths. I hate it.

I’m not much for hardass talk, but I’m serious when I say this- I know that when someone pushes me to the point where I have to act, I know that when I stand up to fight, I will rip their fucking eyes out. It’s not a question, and I know what I’m capable of. That’s why I do this shit. All the other shit don’t matter that much.

[/quote]

Good stuff.

And I was just going to say it was about being able to hit and not get hit… :wink:

24

It was something to do
being a hyper kid “free” daycare

Judo
then wrestling hs, college blah blah blah
it was about dominance
will
overcoming obstacles
succeeding
being the hardest worker
and yes wanting to be more than someone else
and yes wanting to beat someone else

then when I was “older”
I got to appreciate the judo
the form
the physics

with out getting to metaphysical
its now about letting the mind be free.
reclaiming some space in my own head.
Roadwork used to do it probably dance and yoga for others.

Its like the olympic lifts or gymnastics
or big iron or what ever.
what can I accomplish with Judo
and in that mindset the opponent is irrelevant
its no longer can I beat him or will beat him
its like I’m going to do this.
and he is part of it.
usually the part the flys and goes boom if I do it right

kmc

25

i think this way too…i visualize it. ive never seen it put into words this way…hm.

26

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Some people are just driven to it. It’s like how some guys grow up wanting to be cops or scientists or politicians- some of us are just born to fight.

[/quote]

this is the best, and most truthful statement I have seen in a long time.

I am actually depressed now that I can not fight.
for some reason I am not happy if im not getting my head bashed in by someone bigger than myself.
sounds crazy but its true.

And I think martial arts is just that its an art.
the goal is to perfect it but because it is an art it is never really perfected theres always something you can chance or do better.

and it is really not about fighting,its about learning
learning about yourself and about other people.
Its learning how to listen even when theres nothing to listen to.

27

[quote]Sifu wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
If a martial arts philosophy is to be complete it should encompass all combat. I also include the general idea of warfare into the ideas of martial arts.

Boxing is no less a martial art than say learning to use a stick.

There are general truths we can make in regard to all forms of combat.

I am trying to understand combat as it relates to the interaction of individuals or groups of individuals actively engaged in a struggle with each other where the ultimate goal is either submission or annihilation.

I don’t know if you realize this but, you started off this thread saying you wanted to learn about martial arts philosophy in your first post, yet here you are in your second telling us what it is in the narrowest of terms.

If you really want to learn you should think about that.

Here is some philosophy for you. Humility is the quality of being teachable. You can’t taste my tea if your cup is still full of your tea.

The ability to defend yourself is probably the most thing you can get from learning martial arts. But you are mistaken if you think that self defense is solely about combat.

Self defense begins long before the first kick or punch is ever thrown. If you ever actually have to throw a kick or punch in self defense you have failed at the most basic level of self defense. Which is not getting yourself into that position in the first place.

A true master never has to use his skills for combat because he knows how to avoid it. He uses the art of fighting without fighting. [/quote]

DANG… i almost heard a ba wu flute playing in the background then ending with a gong… awesome!

28

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:This seems to borrow from Jeet Kune Do principles, am I mistaken? I am very interested in Bruce Lee’s philosophy.

I especially like his take on competitive fighting.[/quote]

Bruce Lee’s philosophy was great and all but a lot of it was just taken from older stuff and re-worded.

If you haven’t already, read:
1)the Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi
2)the Hagakure by Yamamoto Tsunetomo
3)the Chinese classic the Art of War
4)anything by Confucius
5)Heiho Kadensho (Life Giving Sword) by Yagyu Munenori

if you want to read the stuff Bruce Lee ripped from.

If anything, read the Art of War. Lots of good stuff pertaining to your original question, from the perspective of the ASIAN PERSUASION.

29

[quote]Rob-jitsu wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:This seems to borrow from Jeet Kune Do principles, am I mistaken? I am very interested in Bruce Lee’s philosophy.

I especially like his take on competitive fighting.

Bruce Lee’s philosophy was great and all but a lot of it was just taken from older stuff and re-worded.

If you haven’t already, read:
1)the Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi
2)the Hagakure by Yamamoto Tsunetomo
3)the Chinese classic the Art of War
4)anything by Confucius
5)Heiho Kadensho (Life Giving Sword) by Yagyu Munenori

if you want to read the stuff Bruce Lee ripped from.

If anything, read the Art of War. Lots of good stuff pertaining to your original question, from the perspective of the ASIAN PERSUASION.[/quote]

And if you want to read where their philosophy was ‘ripped off’ from, read The Dao-De-Tsing and Lao Tzo.

Bruce Lee was a very charismatic actor who brought the Kung Fu style fight scene in movies to a wider audience and also helped to expose Westerners to Eastern philosophy.

He had some good ideas about training and was obviously a genetic freak.

Most of the books that have been released in his name are a total rip off and are about cashing in on his legend as are Jeet Kun Do schools. The concept of teaching a style based on someone who made a point that you shouldn’t go out and look for a style is ironic to the point of being hilarious.

30

Hah, exactly. Knowledge just gets built upon knowledge and complexity increases over time - along with fancy words and bullshit. But most of this stuff is common sense caveman shit that got passed down over the years.

Blargh punches Ugh, Ugh picks up a rock and smashes Blargh over the head - a.k.a. be aware of your surroundings/always try to attain the advantage while keeping your opponent at a disadvantage/attack your opponant’s weak points/etc etc.

I don’t think the philosophy of combat is all that extravagant or deep, but reading about the mindsets, thoughts, and ideas of different warriors throughout time is pretty cool.

Oh, us silly humans…

31

^learning is all about revisionism.

32

^
ok.

33

Martial Arts are a lifestyle

34

The philosophy is one that depends on the individual but a general theme is present:

-Do not be afraid
-Never give up, never surrender
-Push yourself
-Have confidence and belief in yourself
-Control of your emotions (you dont freak out if someone starts attacking you)
And also i like what sifu said.
If you’ve gotten in a fight then you’ve already neglected the philosophy.
A true martial artist is humble and knows that fighting is not something that is “cool” but something that comes out of necessity (in relation to the situation) and is very serious. Fighting is something you can avoid.
Being open minded

Basically the philosophy is about being a better person.

35

[quote]blazindave wrote:
The philosophy is one that depends on the individual but a general theme is present:

-Do not be afraid
-Never give up, never surrender
-Push yourself
-Have confidence and belief in yourself
-Control of your emotions (you dont freak out if someone starts attacking you)
And also i like what sifu said.
If you’ve gotten in a fight then you’ve already neglected the philosophy.
A true martial artist is humble and knows that fighting is not something that is “cool” but something that comes out of necessity (in relation to the situation) and is very serious. Fighting is something you can avoid.
Being open minded

Basically the philosophy is about being a better person.
[/quote]

I agree with this, but I’m frequently afraid during training. Last night before & even during sparring there were moments when I was afraid.

I think the growth comes because I do the thing I’m afraid of, I’m learning to make a habit of overcoming my fear instead of letting it stop me. I don’t know that there will ever come a time when I don’t experience fear before a challenge, but that would be nice!

36

[quote]blazindave wrote:
The philosophy is one that depends on the individual but a general theme is present:

-Do not be afraid
-Never give up, never surrender
-Push yourself
-Have confidence and belief in yourself
-Control of your emotions (you dont freak out if someone starts attacking you)
And also i like what sifu said.
If you’ve gotten in a fight then you’ve already neglected the philosophy.
A true martial artist is humble and knows that fighting is not something that is “cool” but something that comes out of necessity (in relation to the situation) and is very serious. Fighting is something you can avoid.
Being open minded

Basically the philosophy is about being a better person.
[/quote]

I like this.

37

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
I think the growth comes because I do the thing I’m afraid of, I’m learning to make a habit of overcoming my fear instead of letting it stop me. I don’t know that there will ever come a time when I don’t experience fear before a challenge, but that would be nice!
[/quote]

Being afraid is natural and what keeps you alive. I think a better way to have said it would be, do not let your fear control you. Be afraid, be aware of how it affects you, but don’t ever let it go. Fear keeps you from being stupid.

38

At the same time that Babe Ruth was slugging home runs on the other side of the Bronx in the new Yankee Stadium, the young Cus D?Amato was learning valuable lessons about fear and cowardice, toughness and courage and survival on the streets, lessons he would later incorporate in the unique philosophy of life and boxing which he imparted to his fighters. One lesson that became familiar to his disciples was that the fear of something is usually worse than the reality, a lesson he expounded using an example from his own life.

He would describe how a guy from another neighborhood, who had a reputation as one of the best knife fighters on the streets of the Bronx, was swaggering around Cus?s own patch and intimidating his pals. One day the hoodlum challenged each of them to a knife fight. Everyone was afraid and no one would accept the challenge. Once his dominance was established, the challenger began insulting and humiliating them until he?d had his fill, and then left. Word of this reached Cus that evening. He was so angered that he sought out the antagonist and challenged him to a fist fight. The reply was no; instead, D?Amato was offered the opportunity to avenge the honor of his friends in a knife fight.

The foolhardy Cus accepted. It was agreed the two would meet at an abandoned building at seven the next morning, alone. There would be no witnesses in case one of them ended up dead. On his way home, Cus couldn?t help but think it was most likely to be him. Fear gripped him as it never had before. He hadn?t the slightest idea how to wield a knife in a fight, yet here he was about to face an expert. When he was finally able to control his fear, he thought up an idea that would at least give him a chance. Maybe he didn?t know about knife fighting, but he did know about boxing, about using his fists. He found an ice pick, carved the handle down so it would fit in his closed palm, with the blade extending out between his middle and ring fingers. He than practiced as if he were boxing, only now, at the end of his fist, was a deadly blade as he jabbed the air.

In the few hours that remained until dawn, he tried unsuccessfully to sleep. He then headed for the empty warehouse where the fight was to take place, getting there early in order to check out the surroundings and prepare himself for his adversary. He taped the ice pick inside his fist, made sure the blade protruded far enough and wrapped a jacket around his forearm for protection. Then he waited. When the fear built up too much and threatened to overwhelm him, he danced around, practicing his technique. He learned that motion relieves tension. The minutes passed. Seven o?clock cam and went, and the knife fighter had still not appeared. D?Amato felt relieved, but then checked himself. If he began to wind down and his opponent suddenly materialized, he knew his resolve to fight might be weakened.

Finally, when more than an hour had passed, Cus realized that fear must have got the better of the knife fighter. He wasn?t going to appear. Cus went home, a hero to his friends. The knife fighter never showed himself again. Cus knew he had won a victory, not only over his adversary, but over himself. He had faced his fear and refused to allow it get the better of him.

39

The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero uses his fear, projects it onto his opponent, while the coward runs. It’s the same thing, fear, but it’s what you do with it that matters.

– Cus D’Amato

40

[quote]rasturai wrote:
At the same time that Babe Ruth was slugging home runs on the other side of the Bronx in the new Yankee Stadium, the young Cus D?Amato was learning valuable lessons about fear and cowardice, toughness and courage and survival on the streets, lessons he would later incorporate in the unique philosophy of life and boxing which he imparted to his fighters. One lesson that became familiar to his disciples was that the fear of something is usually worse than the reality, a lesson he expounded using an example from his own life.

He would describe how a guy from another neighborhood, who had a reputation as one of the best knife fighters on the streets of the Bronx, was swaggering around Cus?s own patch and intimidating his pals. One day the hoodlum challenged each of them to a knife fight. Everyone was afraid and no one would accept the challenge. Once his dominance was established, the challenger began insulting and humiliating them until he?d had his fill, and then left. Word of this reached Cus that evening. He was so angered that he sought out the antagonist and challenged him to a fist fight. The reply was no; instead, D?Amato was offered the opportunity to avenge the honor of his friends in a knife fight.

The foolhardy Cus accepted. It was agreed the two would meet at an abandoned building at seven the next morning, alone. There would be no witnesses in case one of them ended up dead. On his way home, Cus couldn?t help but think it was most likely to be him. Fear gripped him as it never had before. He hadn?t the slightest idea how to wield a knife in a fight, yet here he was about to face an expert. When he was finally able to control his fear, he thought up an idea that would at least give him a chance. Maybe he didn?t know about knife fighting, but he did know about boxing, about using his fists. He found an ice pick, carved the handle down so it would fit in his closed palm, with the blade extending out between his middle and ring fingers. He than practiced as if he were boxing, only now, at the end of his fist, was a deadly blade as he jabbed the air.

In the few hours that remained until dawn, he tried unsuccessfully to sleep. He then headed for the empty warehouse where the fight was to take place, getting there early in order to check out the surroundings and prepare himself for his adversary. He taped the ice pick inside his fist, made sure the blade protruded far enough and wrapped a jacket around his forearm for protection. Then he waited. When the fear built up too much and threatened to overwhelm him, he danced around, practicing his technique. He learned that motion relieves tension. The minutes passed. Seven o?clock cam and went, and the knife fighter had still not appeared. D?Amato felt relieved, but then checked himself. If he began to wind down and his opponent suddenly materialized, he knew his resolve to fight might be weakened.

Finally, when more than an hour had passed, Cus realized that fear must have got the better of the knife fighter. He wasn?t going to appear. Cus went home, a hero to his friends. The knife fighter never showed himself again. Cus knew he had won a victory, not only over his adversary, but over himself. He had faced his fear and refused to allow it get the better of him.
[/quote]

Great story, thanks for sharing it.