Marion Jones Admits Steroid Use

Off Topic
21

I’m not sure what my opinion is regarding whether or not steroids should be allowed in sports, but I will say that I took a great deal of satisfaction in Marion Jones’ public, slobbering mea culpa, reason being that she was SUCH an adamant, obviously lying bitch when she was asked by the press about drug use in years past. She took SUCH a proactive, aggressive, accusatory, cunt-like stance against anyone who even dared ask her a question about it, with such a smug demeanor, when she was so obviously (to me) lying.

Karma’s a bitch, Marion.

22

[quote]gojira wrote:
O.K., where to start…sigh…not enough forum space or time to discuss the inadequacies of the medical community.

Let me just say that during my last ANNUAL physical, the spirometry tech put me into the computer as a 50 year old, african american male. The doctor read the report and signed it.

[/quote]

Well that’s more of a seperate issue. Anything in life has incompetent and competent people involved in it and the medical community is no different.

Not being part of the medical community, I have no specific solutions to offer. There are people much more knowledgeable than me who could make those decisions. My point is that I believe the current drug testing procedures to be backwards. They pick substances that the believe to be harmful and test for them because of the effects they might have, rather than going immediately to the main goal of testing, which is to ensure that the athlete is not in danger.

23

[quote]Damici wrote:
I’m not sure what my opinion is regarding whether or not steroids should be allowed in sports, but I will say that I took a great deal of satisfaction in Marion Jones’ public, slobbering mea culpa, reason being that she was SUCH an adamant, obviously lying bitch when she was asked by the press about drug use in years past. She took SUCH a proactive, aggressive, accusatory, cunt-like stance against anyone who even dared ask her a question about it, with such a smug demeanor, when she was so obviously (to me) lying.

Karma’s a bitch, Marion.
[/quote]

Word

24

Such rampant use does make me wonder if there are ANY athletes at the level who don’t use. I would have tremendous respect for them if so. Not because I think it’s so bad but because those athletes would be operating at a marked DISadvantage and still performing tremendously.

25

[quote]gordonshumway wrote:
I must say that I am genuinely shocked by this admission. She seemed so wholesome and honest, above reproach. Even when Victor Cunte was making his allegations, I still didn’t believe it. I also still believe that Justin Gatlin and Floyd Landis were set up or are innocent. Don’t know why I believe they’re innocent, usually I’m quite cyncal. But it just doesn’t seem to make sense.[/quote]

It is considered highly likely that Landis had a blood transfusion but was mistakenly given a strength athletes blood. These coaches coordinate blood doping programs for large groups of athletes but the system is non-fail safe. Every so often mistakes are made in matching numerical IDs (passcodes if you will, so as to avert irrevocable proof of personal responsibility for cheating). You’ll notice that most of the high-profile cyclists caught by the anti-doping federation are usually picked off in pairs and are usually members of the same team. The theory is that the US teams (Discovery, US Postal: Armstrong, Landis, Hamilton) have coaches who also deal with NFL players and MLB players and the like.

I just want to make it known that I think doping in sport is extremely unethical, and that the sport of cycling will in a few years time be the model of reform. The world anti-doping federations’ scientists are becoming increasingly vigilant and creative in their ideas (blood volume testing) and it is great that there are European countries that are willing to throw these sporting fraudsters in prison for their crimes, regardless of their once superman status in society.

I disagree with the vast majority of the opinions here and can only say that the entire concept of “testing athletes for health only” is absolutely laughable and is a discourtesy to a huge population of athletes with ridiculous potential who aren’t superheroes because they care about their health, and they have a conscience. It is also a discourtesy to a great number of scientists out there that are far more intelligent than you seem to be willing to give them credit for.

Don’t worry, tests will be developed - and samples will be held onto and used in years to come to revoke accolades given to cheats. And remember, just because you have read countless publications on the protocol of anabolic steroids and other doping agents - even if you have implemented them in your own bodybuilding goals - this does not make you an expert in this matter. Doping in sport is a serious offense - it is unethical and immoral.

26

Not all athletes use steroids, look at quarterbacks for example -Payton Manning for one since he seems to be the best- he definitely doesn’t look like he takes steroids.

SKILL will still always be > then pure strength and speed. I think athletes shouldn’t use and just rely mostly on their SKILL. Allowing athletes to openly use will cause the same affect nicotine gum in baseball caused. Which is kids using steroids, we don’t want this.

27

[quote]cormac wrote:

It is considered highly likely that Landis had a blood transfusion but was mistakenly given a strength athletes blood. These coaches coordinate blood doping programs for large groups of athletes but the system is non-fail safe. Every so often mistakes are made in matching numerical IDs (passcodes if you will, so as to avert irrevocable proof of personal responsibility for cheating). You’ll notice that most of the high-profile cyclists caught by the anti-doping federation are usually picked off in pairs and are usually members of the same team. The theory is that the US teams (Discovery, US Postal: Armstrong, Landis, Hamilton) have coaches who also deal with NFL players and MLB players and the like.
…[/quote]

That makes sense. The first believable thing I have read on the subject.

28

[quote]cormac wrote:
Doping in sport is a serious offense - it is unethical and immoral.[/quote]

If it wasn’t against the rules of a governing body. Would it still be unethical and immoral?

29

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
cormac wrote:
Doping in sport is a serious offense - it is unethical and immoral.

If it wasn’t against the rules of a governing body. Would it still be unethical and immoral?[/quote]

Naturally.

Cheating is wrong by its very nature. It actually frightens me that an intelligent person such as yourself can seem so incapable of understanding that. If a person is not capable of winning using what they were born with then they do not deserve to win.

30

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
cormac wrote:

It is considered highly likely that Landis had a blood transfusion but was mistakenly given a strength athletes blood. These coaches coordinate blood doping programs for large groups of athletes but the system is non-fail safe. Every so often mistakes are made in matching numerical IDs (passcodes if you will, so as to avert irrevocable proof of personal responsibility for cheating). You’ll notice that most of the high-profile cyclists caught by the anti-doping federation are usually picked off in pairs and are usually members of the same team. The theory is that the US teams (Discovery, US Postal: Armstrong, Landis, Hamilton) have coaches who also deal with NFL players and MLB players and the like.
…

That makes sense. The first believable thing I have read on the subject.[/quote]

Thanks, I’m glad you see that. If you’re interested in reading a bit more about The Puerto Scandal you can check out the references and the overview from Wikipedia:

Current World Championships Fiasco:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2007/mcquaid_valverde_dna07

31

Track fans should not be impressed by this admission. It’s really not so much an admission of guilt as a passing of blame anyway, and I find it rather pathetic. Fucking flaxeed oil? I used to tell lies like that when I was 12. She was shooting up willingly and wittingly, just like Conte said. This is just more of the same from her. I award her no points.

And no, this does not mean that all track athletes are dirty. It means that Marion Jones was dirty.

32

Thanks for the explanation. I don’t keep up with the drug testing and stuff like I used to. But beyond the drug use, I now see Marion as a cheater. I don’t have a problem with steroids, or any drug for that matter. But when it is done in a way to gain an unfair advantage at someone else’s expense, then it’s wrong. I know the argument that many of the athletes are on drugs but few are caught. But what about the ones who are really not on anything. Gwen Torrance comes to mind.

At the Atlanta olympics she made some comments that were accusatory towards many of the other women sprinters. Many deemed the comments as sour grapes, but in retrospect maybe there were some athletes who were clean who got cheated because they weren’t using some pharmaceutical help.

It is considered highly likely that Landis had a blood transfusion but was mistakenly given a strength athletes blood. These coaches coordinate blood doping programs for large groups of athletes but the system is non-fail safe. Every so often mistakes are made in matching numerical IDs (passcodes if you will, so as to avert irrevocable proof of personal responsibility for cheating). You’ll notice that most of the high-profile cyclists caught by the anti-doping federation are usually picked off in pairs and are usually members of the same team.

The theory is that the US teams (Discovery, US Postal: Armstrong, Landis, Hamilton) have coaches who also deal with NFL players and MLB players and the like.

I just want to make it known that I think doping in sport is extremely unethical, and that the sport of cycling will in a few years time be the model of reform. The world anti-doping federations’ scientists are becoming increasingly vigilant and creative in their ideas (blood volume testing) and it is great that there are European countries that are willing to throw these sporting fraudsters in prison for their crimes, regardless of their once superman status in society.

I disagree with the vast majority of the opinions here and can only say that the entire concept of “testing athletes for health only” is absolutely laughable and is a discourtesy to a huge population of athletes with ridiculous potential who aren’t superheroes because they care about their health, and they have a conscience. It is also a discourtesy to a great number of scientists out there that are far more intelligent than you seem to be willing to give them credit for. Don’t worry, tests will be developed - and samples will be held onto and used in years to come to revoke accolades given to cheats.

And remember, just because you have read countless publications on the protocol of anabolic steroids and other doping agents - even if you have implemented them in your own bodybuilding goals - this does not make you an expert in this matter. Doping in sport is a serious offense - it is unethical and immoral.

33


(As said in a related thread): The facts is (and you wont hear anyone in the lamestream media mentioning this) that she was coached to say that stuff and perform for the cameras to avoid the threats of heavy jail time prosecutors were laying on her. She had to publicly express “remorse” as part of her deal. She clearly has shitty legal representation who took the easy way out instead of fighting the charges. They let themselves be intimidated, no guts (unlike Greg Anderson, who needs a wheelbarrow to carry around his balls!)…

I predict that now they have got her to perform, they will still stick her with a little prison jolt as an example to others …Those suit wearin’ scumbag publicity-seeking career at-all-cost-ladder climbing prosecutors used her womanly nature against her, manipulating her emotions to get the desired result: her public humiliation and brownie points on their resumes for that high level job in Washington D.C., (maybe a judgeship by the time they hit 40),

built on the tears and ruined lives they created, persecuting non-violent AAS users, while the real criminals sell actual drug poisons to the masses, murder people with impunity, laugh at the cops & courts, and enjoy the high life on their narco-blood money…

34

[quote]shizen wrote:
Allowing athletes to openly use will cause the same affect nicotine gum in baseball caused. Which is kids using steroids, we don’t want this[/quote]

“Kids” always seem to find a way to smoke (cigs and/or weed), drink booze, and do rec drugs…We all know these are bad choices for the immature, and we all know many of us did the same thing when we were immature too, proving that there is a will and a way…We can try our best to protect them, but there always will be a percentage that will do it anyway…The responsible majority ought not be penalized for the excesses of the fistfull of hardheads on the highway to hell no matter what…

35

This is not so much a confession as a passing of blame. I am completely unimpressed with the flaxeed oil excuse. She is just a lying, cheating fraud and that’s it. No props for coming clean until she admits that she knowingly cheated.

I’ll say, though, that this certainly does not mean that all elite athletes are on gear, and the people who say that are still idiots. I know a handful of track people personally and there are some of them I’m not sure about, but others whom I can vouce almost completely for. If Ato Boldon was on anything than I am a damn fool and a bad judge of character.

36

Well now, as far as I know a person is not born with money, sponsorships, world-class coaches, world-class training facilities, custom-made shoes/suits/etc, ART practitioners, sports doctors, vitamins, minerals, fish oil, creatine/glutamine/beta-alanine supplements, protein powder, tailored diets and so on and so forth.

All of the above are available in different quantities to different competitors, and those who cannot obtain the above are placed at an incredibly severe disadvantage, often through no fault of their own. Seems to me that steroids are only one factor out of many that will un-level the playing field, and even then they probably aren’t the most powerful factor.

Should we then ban athletes for receiving more coaching than a stipulated amount? Should we decree that all athletes can only devote a certain amount of time and money to a sport? Should we mandate that all athletes in a certain sport have the same genes?

[quote]cormac wrote:

Cheating is wrong by its very nature. It actually frightens me that an intelligent person such as yourself can seem so incapable of understanding that. If a person is not capable of winning using what they were born with then they do not deserve to win.[/quote]

37

[quote]cormac wrote:
If a person is not capable of winning using what they were born with then they do not deserve to win.[/quote]

Deserve?..Excuse me?..Even the most extreme purveyors of genetic superiority mythology as science: The Nazis, used pharmacology on both their sports and military atheletes (not to mention Adolf’s own daily multiple dose addiction)…Even these racist crackpots secretly understood “genetics” had built in limitations, with only so many “Supermen” available “naturally”, and sought the holy grail “Super Soldier” elixir through science…

Benzedrine and methanphetamine were given to German Olympians and Waffen S.S.“Shock” Troops to enhance performance…and they worked! (although some of the users still did not win their individual competitions, genetics be dammed)…Who is trying to fool whom here?…Even Gladiators of the Roman era ate hearts and livers of Lions, seeking a performance edge:

This is nothing new or innovative!…Mincing about claiming to be truehearts on this subject is comedic to the realist, who understands such a position is mere vanity based, egotistical moralistic bigotry, unsupported by historical fact…

38

But can they strip her of her medals when the drug she was using at the time was not illegal or banned by the IOC?

Here’s a timeline of the BALCO investigation.
BALCO investigation timeline - USATODAY.com

This should spark up this discussion a bit.

So, since no one has defined “healthy” for me yet, how about defining “cheating”. If they ban creatine in or any other widely used supplement in 2008, can they strip champions from the 2004 olympics of their medals retroactively for using it?

My gut is that she will plead to lying to the feds in exchange for keeping her medals. And then there’s the whole Barry Bonds thing. If they can strip Marion, who never failed a drug test for THG, of her medals, can they strip Bonds of his records? He also lied to investigators and received the same “supplements” from BALCO?

Stay tuned, this may get interesting.

39

[quote]cormac wrote:
gordonshumway wrote:
I must say that I am genuinely shocked by this admission. She seemed so wholesome and honest, above reproach. Even when Victor Cunte was making his allegations, I still didn’t believe it. I also still believe that Justin Gatlin and Floyd Landis were set up or are innocent. Don’t know why I believe they’re innocent, usually I’m quite cyncal. But it just doesn’t seem to make sense.

It is considered highly likely that Landis had a blood transfusion but was mistakenly given a strength athletes blood. These coaches coordinate blood doping programs for large groups of athletes but the system is non-fail safe. Every so often mistakes are made in matching numerical IDs (passcodes if you will, so as to avert irrevocable proof of personal responsibility for cheating). You’ll notice that most of the high-profile cyclists caught by the anti-doping federation are usually picked off in pairs and are usually members of the same team. The theory is that the US teams (Discovery, US Postal: Armstrong, Landis, Hamilton) have coaches who also deal with NFL players and MLB players and the like.

I just want to make it known that I think doping in sport is extremely unethical, and that the sport of cycling will in a few years time be the model of reform. The world anti-doping federations’ scientists are becoming increasingly vigilant and creative in their ideas (blood volume testing) and it is great that there are European countries that are willing to throw these sporting fraudsters in prison for their crimes, regardless of their once superman status in society.

I disagree with the vast majority of the opinions here and can only say that the entire concept of “testing athletes for health only” is absolutely laughable and is a discourtesy to a huge population of athletes with ridiculous potential who aren’t superheroes because they care about their health, and they have a conscience. It is also a discourtesy to a great number of scientists out there that are far more intelligent than you seem to be willing to give them credit for. Don’t worry, tests will be developed - and samples will be held onto and used in years to come to revoke accolades given to cheats. And remember, just because you have read countless publications on the protocol of anabolic steroids and other doping agents - even if you have implemented them in your own bodybuilding goals - this does not make you an expert in this matter. Doping in sport is a serious offense - it is unethical and immoral.[/quote]

One of the best post I have read on the topic of doping,if not the best.
Thanks for the food for thought.

I personally believe there is just too much money involved in prof. sport to stuff the genie of doping back in the bottle,and that coupled with the ever decreasing age of the actual athletes,who are after all,just kids,it makes the future of any kind of control very bleak.

just an opinion,I don’t have even the slightest idea of a solution.

And the way you portrayed how Landis may have been caught is the only one I have read that made any sense whatsoever.

Thanks for that.

40

[quote]Blacksnake wrote:
cormac wrote:
If a person is not capable of winning using what they were born with then they do not deserve to win.
Deserve?..Excuse me?..Even the most extreme purveyors of genetic superiority mythology as science: The Nazis, used pharmacology on both their sports and military atheletes (not to mention Adolf’s own daily multiple dose addiction)…Even these racist crackpots secretly understood “genetics” had built in limitations, with only so many “Supermen” available “naturally”, and sought the holy grail “Super Soldier” elixir through science…Benzedrine and methanphetamine were given to German Olympians and Waffen S.S.“Shock” Troops to enhance performance…and they worked! (although some of the users still did not win their individual competitions, genetics be dammed)…Who is trying to fool whom here?…Even Gladiators of the Roman era ate hearts and livers of Lions, seeking a performance edge: This is nothing new or innovative!…Mincing about claiming to be truehearts on this subject is comedic to the realist, who understands such a position is mere vanity based, egotistical moralistic bigotry, unsupported by historical fact…
[/quote]

very true (and even unmeant funny) riposte!
One has to be extremely bigoted to tell athletes what they should do with their bodies.
Say you’re a top-sprinter. You have all the usual problems like injuries, putting food on your family :wink: and generally making ends meet. If you’re not elite, chances are you’re not very successful. If you know that practically all others juice and/or your genetics are subpar, why shouldn’t you be damned if you inject steroids or similar substances.

Also, I find it generally hilarious how some guys are so shocked, seemingly. We had a little discussion about Mme Jones a while ago and some folks here protected her “integrity” like a Wolfmother a little cub. Sad.