Lumpy, Hate to get caught up on terminology, but it seems you always nit pick so here I go. No war is ever necessary. If someone wanted to kill you and overrun your country, you could just sit back and let them, and get killed. Not likely that it would happen but you can’t say that anyone ever, did not have a choice. There is always a choice, Always a decision to be made. Old G-dub did what he thought was right, what’s the big friggin deal with this.
Even if it was the wrong choice (which it wasn’t) why must people label him as a bad person or that he lied, or that he wanted to kill saddam for revenge on trying to kill his pops, or that cheany made him do it, or that he did it for his texas oil buddies. The pure number of different theories that have been spewed about why the president took us to war with congressional support is staggering. Why not he did it because he thought it was the right thing for the people of the US, the people of Iraq and the people of the world as a whole.
Elk…Malonetd…the internet???..you have faith in internet news enough to site it as a credible source???..whatchyal smokin dude!!!
With the internet…falehood can be half away across the world before truth has had time to put it’s boots on!
I take the internet only half serious for news!!!
Fox news is #1!!!in the ratings…I am sure that pisses liberals off…but ratings are ratings!..but the reality is that most of the other networks I find BORING!!!..AND pessimistic…which I find most liberals are very much so. You guys are always trying to find what is not RIGHT with a situation than in finding results…or even a postive aspect to anything. This is part of the liberal mentality I find crippling. Its SO NEGATIVE!!!
As to the boring part…its very much like the NFL pregame shows…ever watch those? On NBC and CBS…the commentators are so BORING AND SCRIPTED…vs…watch the FOX NFL show…they are positive…very much less scripted and …well…for lack of a better term…they have some pizzaz and personality! I feel like taking a nap with Gumbel and the others! And that is what happens when I have TRIED to watch the other news channels…can you say SSSNNNNOOOORRRRE??
By the way…malonetd…whats with all that water you holding??? you should really try some Nolvadex or Clomid! Arimedex is the best though!
Whoa, dude, when was the last time you even watched NFL football? NBC hasn’t had football in like 6 or 7 years. I do agree that the Fox pre-game is better than CBS, it is because of the analysts and their personalities, not because of the un-pessimistic and liberal nature of the network.
Additionally, ESPN has a very good pre-game show as well(except when that loud-mouth Limbaugh was there). Ron Jaworski is one of the best at what he does and it very little with the network he works for; ABC.
“Ratings are ratings.” What the hell does that mean? Does that make it balanced? Does that make it right(no pun intended)? Friends was #1 too, but if I recall, you weren’t a big fan of that. So what the hell do ratings mean?
I’d rather talk about football than just about anything, anyway.
I think Joe Gibbs return is overrated, but it is an upgrade from Spurrier.
I think T.O. will have very little impact and Philly will fail to make the playoffs.
I think Bill Parcells is getting fatter and the Cowboys will win their division.
I think the Bengals will return to their true form and stink as usual.
Oh, and that picture of me is from a couple years ago. I am much bigger now.
General Zinni was on Chris Matthews Hardball yesterday.
MATTHEWS: There was a sales pitch for this war which everybody was being - gotten since 9/11. The sales pitch went as follows.
It was going to be easy; it was going to be a cakewalk; the people would welcome us with open hands. It would eventually just be an easy decapitation of Saddam Hussein and onward to democracy.
The other part of the sales pitch was if we didn’t do this easy thing, go to Iraq, we were going to be attacked with nuclear weapons.
Let me ask you, was there any part of the sales pitch, the easy part or the scary part, that was honest?
ZINNI: No, neither one.
MATTHEWS: General, you’ve been tough on people in the Pentagon, and I’ve been tough on them in the past, too, but it’s your turn. You’re on HARDBALL. I’m going to ask you this.
Feith, Wolfowitz, Cambone, Rumsfeld, should they all go?
ZINNI: That's up to the president. But somebody ought to be held accountable for what went on.
I think the president wasn’t served well, the country wasn’t served well and our troops out there weren’t served well. And I think we ought to discover where that problem lies.
MATTHEWS: Well, this is a free country and you have free speech.
You’re the expert; I’m not. Let me ask you this again.
If we were misled in terms of how easy it was going to be to go to war with Iraq, they were going to become our best friends and become Jeffersonian Democrats, that was basically - the cakewalk was the term used.
If we were scared to death from them and told to go to war, we had to, we had no choice, because they’ve got nuclear weapons, and that turned out not to be true.
Somebody should pay the price. Why don’t you just tell me right now, it should be Feith, Wolfowitz, Cambone and Rumsfeld?
ZINNI: Well, why not all? I mean, the buck stops at the - whoever heads up the organization that provides that misleading information that you just ticked off.
Ptrdr, you still haven’t directly addressed the question. Do you or do you not agree with the Marine Corp general? If not, do you think that he is a pinko-commie-tree-hugging-peace-loving-liberal-puke? Your perspective on this particular thread is pretty important. Many respected generals are saying similar things about the Bush regime. Are they all crazy or is there something to their criticism? Sound off please!
I’d chime in but am still laughing about PtrDr’s FOX news comments… fair… haaaaaa… “balanced”… bwaaaaaa…“accurate”…ooh, stop, I can’t take it.
There is a reason that some 80% of Fox viewers believe WMD were found in Iraq and that Saddam was behind 9/11 - it’s because they lie - loudly, often, and its done very slickly.
Montrose, why do you keep dodging my invitation to analyze Zinni’s claims? Is he a bad soldier? Is he a commie-bastard? Do you agree with him? I want to hear from you and Ptr on this issue!
On your side-topic… Who gives a fuck about “Faux News”? Everyone knows that they are far-right. It is obvious in their broadcasts, which reflects the opinions of the owner of FN, Rupert Murdoch… A raging far-right winger. “Fair and Balanced”… Just the fact that they feel like they have to state that means that they know it not to be true. Just like the person that has to qualify many of their sentences with the phrase, “To tell you the truth…” What that communicates is that normally that person does not normally tell the truth. Tell me, honestly, have you ever once sat through an entire hour of the Mcneil News Hour? Its not as flashy and loud and opinionated as FN, but the analysis is very in depth, and the news is not sensationalized. You should try it some day.
After approximately three weeks I have identified people that are interested in discussing the issues rationally. Unfortunately, I think that you are far too partisan for me to make much of an inroads into your thinking. I think that you would not take George Bush’s word that the sun would rise in the east.
That being said, Zinni’s comments deserve serious and sober reflection. I’ve read many of his writings and thoughts leading up to the Iraq War. I find his service record noble and he has developed a great deal of dignitas.
However, I respectfully disagree with his summary. Please not the respect part. I do not dismiss his criticisms, I disagree with him.
General Zinni did an interview in 2001 where he said that Saddam was contained and it may be possible to wait for him to go to the “afterlife.”
I find this kind of thinking to be outdated in the post-9/11 world. It may have worked against a Soviet threat where we could detect their movements and potential missle launches. It cannot defend against vials of ricin, VX nerve gas, or Mustard gas.
Again, Roy, I counter your “ace” with an ace of my own, Colin Powell.
Further, please read your history and you can find a multitude of prominent Americans who completely misjudged the geo-political scene. Want examples? Off the top of my head, Charles Lindbergh comes to mind. If you recall, he was a national hero who spent a great deal of time in Germany before World War II. He fought vehemently against our involvment in World War II. Then there’s Joe Kennedy, etc…
Or, you could look at the approximately 56 Democratic House of Representative members who voted against the Thirteenth Amendement abolishing slavery in 1865.
I want to let my fellow posters know that I view people who seem “happy” by any misfortunes in the Iraqi theatre to be Un-Patriotic and Un-American.
Roy…he may (the general) have a few valid points. I don’t believe we should throw out the baby with the bathwater though. We have to finish the job. And its my job to support my commander in chief.
Isn’t this general retired though? Just because he made general doesn’t mean he is omnipotent or has an agenda of his own! Lots of top brass have been brought down over the years for doing criminal and dishonest things. This guy isn’ above making mistakes or having his own agenda. And I really this guy was loyal to the “Schlickmeister” himself…Wild Bill Clinton!
Hey Batty…as far as FOX news goes…I like those guys…and they have liberals on there also…Geraldo and Colmes and a few of the luscious babes on there! The McNeil newshour is good…and so is the Leher news hour I think its called. For overall…get in your face…get to the point debate however…FOX is second to none! I like confrontation and Hannity, OReilly and the others have balls! They don’t throw softballs like Larry King…you know…“Mr. Ambassador…what brand of underwear do you wear?”
I especially like The NO spin Zone and can’t see why more T-men,like you claim to be,don’t appreciate that in your face…don’t b.s. me type of attitude that someone like ORielly has. I mean…if you are on this site…you have read T-mags comments about their purpose: if they are not making someone’s anus pucker…they are NOT doing their job! Surely you can respect that about FOX news even if you disagree with their hosts. They take the gloves off!
OH…I have no idea if zenni is a commi or not. I don’t care. He has his agenda and probably some valid points as well.
I used to like O’reillly alot, but I think he tries to hard to stay to the right even when he ends up contradicting himself. I like his style, but not what he ends up delivering most of the time. He just reminds me too much of Limbaugh, now.
Zinni has a new book coming out - It was written by Tom Clancy, but Zinni gets a front cover acknowledgement.
I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that he’s coming out against the Bush admin.? Gredd makes stramge bedfellows.
Franks has openly called for a repeal of the Constitution, in favor of Martial Law. This is a worst case scenario based on the U.S. getting hit with a WMD attack.
Everyone knows Wesley Clark is a card carying member of the Freak’s and Wierdo’s Club.
I would say that all three of these FORMER generals has serious credibility problems.
I am sure if you anti-Bush/anti-war folks beat the bushes hard enough, you will find some more disgruntled former employees to parade in front of the public. Just go search the NPR site - they hate America almost as much as Michael Moore does.
One more thing - I challenge any of you FNC-haters out there to provide proof that it is biased in its reporting of the news. I want real proofof this. Cite an article showing that FNC showed disregard for the truth. Show me some bias.
Oh come on, bias isn’t something that is easily “proven”. Next, when nobody proves it to you you’ll turn around thinking you’ve “proven” it isn’t biased.
What a pile of horseshit. If you agree with the material presented most of the time you’ll never believe it is biased no matter what “proof” was offered. I can’t imagine something that would be a bigger waste of time… other than arguing politics here in the off-topic section all the time.
