I have the Manly Weight Loss book, and wanted to know if anyone followed it (GBC) along with the suggested diets and got ripped? The diet’s seem pretty crappy, Zone-based but involve fast food and crap like that. Is it possible or should I follow another diet. Debating between the diet in the book. Poliquin’s diet advice. My bw is 220 so 1.5g prot. (330g prot), around 30%fat and 50g carbs from broccoli, and postworkout additional 110g carbs from Maltodextrin, w/ a carb meal every 7 days. Or a modified zone. 50%prot. (1.5g per lb bw), 25% carbs, yams and broccoli, and 25%fat, fish oil and canola/olive oil. Wanna get ripped ASAP, didn’t get great results Ketogenic Dieting, any help is appreciated. Anyone do the Zone or similar and get ripped fast?
Flex-I agree the diet is pretty crappy, although the workout concepts are real good for leaning out. The main question I have in regards to which approach to use diet-wise, is, where do you hold your bf? If you hold it mainly in your gut/torso, I’d go mainly high protien/high fat, and minimal carbs <50g, mainly from green vegetables. If your bf is more evenly distributed, go with a zone-ish approach.
Hey, I know Teddykgb used this as part of a long 17 week diet and he got great results. I don’t want to speak for him but I believe he complimented this program with the T-dawg diet, which I have used and I love it!!
Hey, flex. I’ve got the book too, and I’ve got to admit the nutrition and supplementation plans are absolutely for naught. They’re ridiculous. But you already know that so there’s no need to talk about that. I like Poliquin quite a bit and I think he does great work, but…
I haven't done GBC or anything so I can't help you there. Hopefully my boy Teddy catches the thread though, as he's well-versed in it (as well as just about everything else) and made some awesome progress. I've read some of your previous posts and it seems like you know your stuff pretty well. I just wanted to respond about the diet issue. As I said, I've pretty much been trying to put on weight for a while now. I have gradually worked my fat intake up and am now pretty much in the Zone. I don't know how fast you wanna get ripped, but just be careful not to cut calories back too far, as you don't want to lose lean tissue. I think if you use a higher protein and balanced carbs and fat like you posted you'll be good to go, as you said you're not well-suited for the keto. You seem to know what carbs you need to take in. The only thing I might suggest is lowering your post-training carb intake for cutting purposes. I know that 110 is 1g/kg for you, but I think even Poliquin suggests going lower during fat-loss stages. I thought I read somewhere that Poliquin recommended .8g/kg during cutting. According to my calculations you're looking at about 2600 cal/day. I think that you'd be set with the latter diet that you posted, just lowering post-training carbs, sticking with low-glycemic, complex carbs and the good fats you mentioned (including omega-3s). Good luck, flex.
Hey Flex. Yes, I have done GBC w. outstanding results (used it for the last 8 weeks of my 17 week diet), but I didn’t use any of Poliquin’s meal plans. You can assume he was getting endorsement money from SportPharma when that book was written. Basically the first couple of weeks I used a standard high protein, moderately low carb diet w. 6 meals/day, EC and various antioxidants/glutamine. Ratios were similar to what you find in most MRP’s. Then I switched over to a cyclic ketogenic diet for the remainder and was VERY pleased w. the results. Keep in mind that I have done ckd’s many times so I knew how to structure the diet/protein/fat ratios and whatnot for best results. In essence it was very similar to T-Dawg only I consumed no pre-workout carbs and only what you get in an MRP for post workout. I also tried to be strict about the carb-up (notice I said “tried”). No longer than 24 hrs, eating every two hrs. including sleep time but I blew at least three of my carb-ups big time-no junk food, but way too much of stuff like Corn Flakes, granola, etc. I think one of the reasons GBC worked so well for me is that I’d never really trained w. higher reps/short rest intervals (have a bucket ready on squat/dead days!) and I got a nice GH boost which is one of the main reasons why this program works. I have really good recovery ability so keep in mind that many people find themselves overtrained combining GBC w. a keto diet, so you’ll have to experiment with this. I used the 3x/week programs and I did no cardio except the last few weeks, I did one hr. of very low intensity as per Lyle McDonald’s recommendations to help reinstate ketosis as quick as possible. Hope this helps.
Hey teddykgb. You suggested to me a while back that I should stick with high protein, moderate carb, low fat diet since it worked for me last summer but I’m just too curious as to how the T-Dawg diet would work for me so I’m trying it. I’ve basically done something like the pound 'o week diet for the past 6 months and went from 170lbs to 193lbs. It’s funny because I could feel my face getting a little thicker and I definately accumulated fat around the waist although the rest of my body stayed fairly lean. I can still see a flabby outline of my abs and I’m around 10-12% bodyfat, although the gym measured me at 8% (sub-scap,tri,chest)… yeah right!! I was shooting for between 3000-3500 calories per day in the last month of the gainning diet. When I started T-Dawg, I reduced to around 2200-2400 calories. Do you think I’ll loose too much lean mass and if so, how does the fat fast diet not loose lean mass?! I’m not gonna do any cardio yet and I’m working out 3 times a week for now.
Thanks for your help man!!
Yea, I admit the diet info is crappy, and Poliquin must have had a dump truck of cash from sportspharma to write it, but you guys have to realize one thing. The book was written for lazy fat slobs, 30-40lbs overfat. So even though those diets don’t look that good, they would be a HUGE improvement for this type of people. Therefore a steady workout and a calorie counted diet would work wonders for people who never worked out and never were on a caloric diet. So give the fat men credit for at least trying something.
Jamie, I don’t think that your calorie deficit is too low. When getting started on a cut cycle, 12-13x bodyweight is standard, and you should only go lower if you have an ultra slow metabolism, and it doesn’t sound like you do. I don’t do the pre-workout carbs that T-Dawg recommends but if you’re just getting started on it you might give them a shot. As long as you do a carb-up it’s doubtful you’ll lose much muscle but don’t go overboard on it either if fat loss is your goal. With Fat Fast, it was the Androsol/Nandrosol supposedly that kept muscle loss at bay. W/o them you would have to do a carb-up to minimize muscle loss and w. such a low calorie level I don’t know that this would help much. Good luck!
I don’t think you should start out on a very low carb diet, until you get to atleast 10%, I think it will slow your progress out. I find that I need carbs to burn fat. I like to follow a diet arond 50% protein, 30% carbs 20% fats, protein lean sources, carbs from yams , oats, apples ( all small portions half cups oats, 6 oz yam) and tbs flax or udo’s and tons of fish oils. I have found (trust me) that a low insulin shake like ultra size postworkout burns more fat that taking in tons of carbs and whey. Poliquin recommends all glutamine and whey for postworkout when dieting
Teddykgb, thanks for the reply! I’m not doing any pre-workout carbs but I have about 25-20 grams of post workout carb as maltodextrin/dextrose blend in my shake along with some pro-score protein powder. I’m not being too anal about my fats but I make sure to get 1-2 tbsp’s of flax oil and I also get about 40 grams of fat from walnuts (the only nut the Beverly International allows on there diets and they get people extremely lean!!). The rest of my fats come from eggs,cheese,turkey bacon,tuna,salmon,lean red meat and chicken (140g-170g fat total for the day). I was also wondering that if I needed to increase my fat intake for dinner because the total for the day is too low, is it okay to have 20g protein and 35g fat for example? Basically is fat before bedtime okay?
I don’t think that would be a problem. What I do is based on Lyle McDonald’s recommendations. I figure total cals (12x bw for me), subtract .9 g. protein/lb, then subtract whatever carb calories I plan on consuming, then the rest comes from fat. I emphasize efa’s as much as possible but I also consume eggs, meat, cheese and whatnot too. My all-time fave is 30 g. whey protein mixed w. a packed of Sucralose and 5-6 tablespoons of heavy cream. Awesome, baby!
thanx for some feedback, guys. I’d say I’d have to agree with tapper to need carbs while losing fat. Just have this thing and think Poliquin must have all the answers, but I’m prob. better going with my intuition and what I think will work best for me. I’ve tried Bev. Int. low carb diet with decent results, very similar to Poliquins recommendations but a carb up every 3rd and 4th day. I’ve been reading on nutrition for years, every bodybuilding diet as well as other diet out there, and I keep wanting to try different approaches, so I jump around. I think the 50%prot, 25%fat and 25%carbs should be able to get me ripped. I consider it my modified zone b/c normally I’d do 40p,30c and 30f at 1g per lb bodyweight protein. But at 1.5g it would come out to the 50p,25c and 25f. Gonna keep post-workout low-glycemic (Dr. Serrano even said to eat plenty of fat and protein post-workout to get ripped fast) He also said to not eat after 7 in a Bev. Int. interview. Anyone agree with this or is it just old school? Anyone ever consult w/ him or get his recent nutrition advice, i’d love to hear it. I’m really anal about my diet, so here’s the break down. (4 meals) 8oz. chicken, 4 oz. yam, 2 cups broccoli, 8 fish oil capsules. (2 meals) 5.5 scoops EAS protein (55g p) 1/2 scoop maltodextrin, and 5 fish oil capsules. TOTALS 330g p, 165g c, and 73g f. (I get fish oil cheap) Also, is there any problems with a lot of omega-3’s. I’m under the impression the more the better, as well as there’s some 6’s.
Hey, flex. So you’re going to go with the 50/25/25 approach? I think that’s a good way to go. I just had a couple questions for you. Why only four meals a day? I had figured based on what you mentioned earlier that you’d be getting about 2600 cal/day. Maybe my calculations were off before, but I think that should be spread out into more than four meals. Also, is the protein powder just whey? You might consider a casein for the slower digestability. Maltodextrin is not a low-glycemic carb. It ranks up there with glucose on the index. But the fish oil with it might slow things down a bit. As far as lots of omega-3s, I think you’re fine. You might want to check out the Fat Roundtable article. It addresses omega-3s. I haven’t heard too much from Dr. Serrano lately. He has some articles on another website, but they’re from mid-2000. As far as not eating after 7pm, that might work if you go to bed at 8:30 or 9pm at the latest. Anything later than that and I think you’re pushing it. You might recall that Poliquin recommended something similar in Manly Weightloss as causing an increase in GH release during sleep. Not sure how valid that was though.
Timbo-Didn’t mean 4 meals total, just that 4 would be from the chicken, yam, etc. and another 2 meals from the protein shakes, for 6 meals total. I know Maltodextrin is high glycemic but I didn’t think half a scoop would produce a huge insulin spike, especially with the 5.5g fat from the protein as well as another 5g from fish oil. Was considering peaches or an orange, but I don’t see the point in refilling liver glycogen only, which is what I believe happens with fructose. I’m sure fat burning is enhanced when liver glycogen is low. I think the maltodextrin would predominantly refill muscle glycogen stores. If you had any other suggestions i’m willing to try it. Just need the extra carbs so it fits the ratio’s of the other meals I set out for the day. (i’m anal like that)
flex…gotcha, buddy. The meal sitch makes sense now. As I read it again, I don’t know how I missed that. Sorry, bud. I don’t know if you’re familiar with John Parillo, but he’s pretty much against fruit in the diet. You’re right about fructose. I bypasses an enzyme that converts glucose to glycogen in order to get to the liver, so if liver glycogen is full…well, hello adipose tissue. Personally, if I eat fruit, it’s just something low glycemic for breakfast or a banana after training. If you get a sweet tooth, it probably wouldn’t hurt to throw in a peach, pear, orange, apple or some berries. I agree that the fat content of the maltodextrin meals will lower the glycemic response. If you get bored of liquid nutrition you could always have some rice, oats or some more veggies. About being anal, I heard that, bro. I’m the same way. What’s your last meal of the day? How close are you planning on having it before bed? You might benefit from a higher protein meal with some fish oil before bed, minus the maltodextrin. I usually have an MRP or some cottage cheese (or both) with some Udo’s or PB about an hour before I call it a night.
I agree too with the fructose making it easier to get fat. Keith Klein was against fruit in the diet too, but he recommends low fat and high carbs (like 60%) I have his Get Lean kit but am not about to use it based on the solid research that overconsuming carbs can make u fat. I think Parillo has a lot of good diet information too, although I’m sure his Cap-Tri supplements aren’t helpful. I believe they’re MCT’s-which I figured all along were a waste, having a fat that burns like a carb. Even Poliquin said in a NY seminar that MCT’s are a scam, and there was actually a good article in a recent Ironman (Jerry Brainum, I believe) wrote about the uselessness of MCT’s. BTW, really appreciate the feedback and encouragement. Trying to actually enter my 1st competition. I was going to keep the ratio’s the same in all meals and eat my last meal around 8pm. But traditionally I’d ditch the carbs after 6 or 7, last meal was usually chicken w/ broccoli and some fish oil caps. I think your idea of cottage cheese is great, and i’ve been eating it 3-4x day w/ some oil and peaches (good) b/c I just got my wisdom teeth pulled. I remember Duchaine said in an old MM2K Cottage Cheese was a superior protein before bed b/c of the high glutamine content as well as the casein protein that’s absorbed slowly to prevent catabolism while sleeping.
flex, sounds like you’re good-to-go. I’ve read a lot of Parillo’s stuff…he’s very intelligent and has trained a ton of awesome bodybuilders. His bars are pretty damn good too. MCTs…nah, stay away from 'em. That’s awesome about you entering your first contest. That is a dream of mine that I’m sure I will reach. It’s just a matter of time (and lots of growth). Keep me posted on your progress and if you have anything else that pops up be sure to let us know. Good luck, buddy.
Just wanted to thank you guys for the feedback. Especially Timbo and Teddykgb, buy everyone as well. u guys are awesome and I appreciate having people to talk to that are into this as much as I am. well, I’m def. gonna stick w/ the 50/25/25 modified Zone. Keep anyone posted who’s interested. I’m DEFINITELY a hard lose, I put on muscle no prob but getting lean is a bitch. Anyway, with Keto diets keeping me fat and low fat diets just being stupid/unhealthy, the Iso-caloric/Zone diets make sense. I think T-mag should have a diet article based on these macronutrients for those who have not been able to lose on the Keto or any super-low carb diet. How about it, Chris Shugart? Also, if you happen to read this post, I’m much like you were. I played college football (O-Lineman) and hurt my shoulder/had surgery and my FB days are over now. I was 255 and am down to 220 now. Thanx again, gonna get started as soon as I’m able to chew whole food again.
flex…good to hear from ya, buddy. I enjoy sharing my thoughts and experiences and look forward to hearing how things go with your cutting phase. Hey, maybe if things go well enough for you using this approach to dieting, YOU can write an article for T-mag! Just a thought. BTW, just think, your metabolism is going to be kicking some major butt as soon as you get those jaw muscles working again and make your body work to digest that whole food;-) Good luck, bud. Keep us posted.