[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
BrownTrout wrote:
Rational Gaze wrote:
Yeah man, stick it to the government by not getting immunised against a pandemic.
Figures that an English dude would criticize my right to resist the government…
x2, I also like how the guy from MA took the same stance. Aren’t we all just a bunch of walking stereotypes?
mike[/quote]
He saves the children but not the British children…Had a pocket full of horses, fucked the shit out of bears…
Pandemic? you have a much better shot of dying in a car crash than from swine flu. I can’t wait until the govt. decides everything for me.
[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
I’ve got swine flu, it sucks.
Get the shot, moron. [/quote]
Uhh…no…
[quote]grayman19 wrote:
This is disaster management. If you do not get vaccinated for a MAJOR pandemic (something nastier than swine flu), you put many other people besides yourself at risk. Too bad for you. Suck it up and get the shot.[/quote]
Again…no…
[quote]BrownTrout wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
BrownTrout wrote:
Rational Gaze wrote:
Yeah man, stick it to the government by not getting immunised against a pandemic.
Figures that an English dude would criticize my right to resist the government…
x2, I also like how the guy from MA took the same stance. Aren’t we all just a bunch of walking stereotypes?
mike
He saves the children but not the British children…Had a pocket full of horses, fucked the shit out of bears…[/quote]
I love you BT. Glad to see someone has experienced it…It changed my life…
mike
I never got a flu shot and never will unless I am mandated. you cannot protect against every strain. they often make you sick. And I’ve never had the flu. Ever.
These aren’t major pandemics, they are flus and they happen every year.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
I never got a flu shot and never will unless I am mandated. you cannot protect against every strain. they often make you sick. And I’ve never had the flu. Ever.
These aren’t major pandemics, they are flus and they happen every year.[/quote]
Why do it when it’s mandated?
mike
The hype is the fear of mutations,such as the one in shanghai, the issue is if this mild strain recombinates with another strain that is more severe. It spreads fastly, the one that started in cali and mexico replicates optimaly at around 38-40 deg C, the mutation in shanghai replicates optimaly at around 33 deg C. Much more infectious much more dangerous. It is only a flu though, even with the current vaccination from seasonal there are still around 35,000-50,000 deaths a year in the US. Primarily from people not getting vaccinated.
Seems silly to me for anyone to die from something that a simple stick could have prevented. And the new production process, you will not get sick, there is nothing left to replicate in your body, but you may show an immune response.
I will however say to be wary of natural adjuvants.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
The hype is the fear of mutations,such as the one in shanghai, the issue is if this mild strain recombinates with another strain that is more severe. It spreads fastly, the one that started in cali and mexico replicates optimaly at around 38-40 deg C, the mutation in shanghai replicates optimaly at around 33 deg C. Much more infectious much more dangerous. It is only a flu though, even with the current vaccination from seasonal there are still around 35,000-50,000 deaths a year in the US. Primarily from people not getting vaccinated.
Seems silly to me for anyone to die from something that a simple stick could have prevented. And the new production process, you will not get sick, there is nothing left to replicate in your body, but you may show an immune response.
I will however say to be wary of natural adjuvants.[/quote]
I’ve had h1n1 influenza.
This means I would be immune to it if it mutates?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9mh9f_swine-flu-1976-propaganda_webcam
60 Minutes segment on the phony 1976 swine flu panic-demic and similarities to the current one. Worth watching.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
take it or leave I would not steer you guys wrong. My daughters are 2 and 4 and will be getting the version without the adjuvant next week, my wife and I already signed up for a clinical trial and received the shot. No sever reactions. second shot 2.5 weeks.
[/quote]
Well and good, but will the version mass-produced by GlaxoSmithKline for mass injection of the populace have the squalene adjuvant, or will it not?
Would you allow your daughters and your wife to be injected with squalene? Why or why not?
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
take it or leave I would not steer you guys wrong. My daughters are 2 and 4 and will be getting the version without the adjuvant next week, my wife and I already signed up for a clinical trial and received the shot. No sever reactions. second shot 2.5 weeks.
Well and good, but will the version mass-produced by GlaxoSmithKline for mass injection of the populace have the squalene adjuvant, or will it not?
Would you allow your daughters and your wife to be injected with squalene? Why or why not?[/quote]
I personally would not allow my wife or daughters to be injected with most whole squalene adjuvants, I cannot speak for GSK, I can speak for our process. We use a derviatized form the squalene as an adjuvant that has shown no auto immune illness in animal models. But I have noe seen sufficient evidence in human models to say it is safe enough for my family.
The reason most people are skeptical about squalene is a study on gulf war syndrome, novartis produced the anthrax vaccine but had low yields so they used a squalene adjuvant. After vets returned home they started to show signs of auto immune disease similar to RA or agent oragne, swollen achy joints. The first study showed that 95% of the VA patience with antibodies to the whole squalene, while only 15% of the VA patience tested not shwoing gulf war syndrome had antibodies to squalene.
After this the department of defense and novartis funded studies and both showed no statistical significance between the 2 groups. But I would question these studies a little just by who performed them.
Moving on to the clinical trials now, we have a few formulations being tested. One includes the squalene derivative adjuvant. But I beleive we will not be releasing any pandemic vaccine using said adjuvant. If they do given the scenario and that our development group questioned these studies I know they will have investigated auto immune responses as well as initial signs similar to gulf war syndrome.
But to answer your question until I see that data no I would not accept a vaccine with a squalene adjuvant,
hope I don’t loose my job. But I think people should be able to make informed decisions.
I am not sure if GSK is still doing egg based vaccine, if so the immune response is sufficient and they really shouldn’t go to an adjuvant vaccine.
Novartis makes a cell line based recombinant vaccine which requires much more antigen to get an immune response and has much lower yields.
We use an egg base vaccine, have one of the more archaic processes but get the best immune response on the market, are first to market every year, have much higher yields. Rather than change the process, we strive to make is safer, understand it better and make sure tokeep as much antibody producing antigen in the vaccine as possible.
sorry that last little part was a sales pitch, but I take a little pride in the fact I help develop and validate methods that help our company understand the process and implications of our products. It is nice to know you help save lives even though some people think we make witches brew and poison.
[quote]toolshed wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
The hype is the fear of mutations,such as the one in shanghai, the issue is if this mild strain recombinates with another strain that is more severe. It spreads fastly, the one that started in cali and mexico replicates optimaly at around 38-40 deg C, the mutation in shanghai replicates optimaly at around 33 deg C. Much more infectious much more dangerous. It is only a flu though, even with the current vaccination from seasonal there are still around 35,000-50,000 deaths a year in the US. Primarily from people not getting vaccinated.
Seems silly to me for anyone to die from something that a simple stick could have prevented. And the new production process, you will not get sick, there is nothing left to replicate in your body, but you may show an immune response.
I will however say to be wary of natural adjuvants.
I’ve had h1n1 influenza.
This means I would be immune to it if it mutates?[/quote]
Honestly it depends on the type of mutation how closely the antigens match.
if there is the right type of mutation the vaccine probably won’t work. We would need a new seed to start from with the antigenic shift of the mutated version.
I for one am glad that the government is looking out for my best interests.
I mean, it’s not like they have a history of lying to us…
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Moving on to the clinical trials now, we have a few formulations being tested. One includes the squalene derivative adjuvant. But I beleive we will not be releasing any pandemic vaccine using said adjuvant. If they do given the scenario and that our development group questioned these studies I know they will have investigated auto immune responses as well as initial signs similar to gulf war syndrome.
But to answer your question until I see that data no I would not accept a vaccine with a squalene adjuvant
[/quote]
Thanks for your thoughtful response.
Here is an abstract of GSK’s clinical trials for Pandemrix (love the catchy name, don’t you?), which contains not only 10.68 mg of squalene per 0.5 ml, or about one million times the amount of squalene found in the anthrax vaccines that supposedly caused Gulf War Syndrome, but also thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative which has been implicated in many studies as causing speech delays, attention-deficit disorder, hyperactivity and autism.
http://gsk-clinicalstudyregister.veritasmedicine.com//files/pdf/20121.pdf
And here’s an article from Rolling Stone by Bobby Kennedy Jr. about the thimerosal controversy.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity
I agree that the public should be able to make informed decisions. But when their information comes primarily from the CDC and pharmaceutical companies by way of the TV, the chances of this seem a bit slim. And if they are required to have the vaccinations or risk losing their jobs, their informed decision won’t count for much at all.
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
tom63 wrote:
I never got a flu shot and never will unless I am mandated. you cannot protect against every strain. they often make you sick. And I’ve never had the flu. Ever.
These aren’t major pandemics, they are flus and they happen every year.
Why do it when it’s mandated?
mike[/quote]
Loss of professional license, since I’m a health care provider, a chiropractor for example. Believe me, they would write things in like that.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
tom63 wrote:
I never got a flu shot and never will unless I am mandated. you cannot protect against every strain. they often make you sick. And I’ve never had the flu. Ever.
These aren’t major pandemics, they are flus and they happen every year.
Why do it when it’s mandated?
mike
Loss of professional license, since I’m a health care provider, a chiropractor for example. Believe me, they would write things in like that.[/quote]
Fair statement; I suppose we all have our own hill to die on…
mike
Squalene was never added to the anthrax vaccines and to date, the cause of Gulf War Syndrome is unknown. Although, some have investigated and suspect chronic exposure to the combination of pyridostigmine bromide, DEET, and permethrin. The myth that squalene was included in very small or trace amounts (which makes no sense as it’s not enough to work as an effective adjuvant) in the anthrax vaccine stems from the fact that squalene contamination readily occurs on laboratory equipment after being handled by humans (we leave it on objects after we touch them as we produce squalene in our body and consume it in our diet). If you’ve ever worked in an analytical lab and didn’t bother to use hexane to clean the glass equipment or were lazy, you’re going to see squalene with GC-MS equipment. It’s just a common contaminant in those cases. And again, this is why they only found trace amounts of it, not nearly enough to make it an effective adjuvant. It has also been shown that a significant portion of the human population already produces antibodies to squalene.
Thimerosal has not been shown to contribute to autism or any of the other nonsense perpetuated over and over by conspiracy theorists and such. And the autism is caused by “X” crowd continually shifts their assertions after scientific data are gathered to refute them…if it wasn’t the vaccine itself (MMR) then it had to be the preservative and if wasn’t that then it was another vaccine and if it wasn’t that then it was antibiotics. The truth is that, just as with the Gulf War Syndrome, the cause of autism isn’t known.
Regarding the H1N1, the last I checked (not on wacko and unsubstantiated websites) it was not going to contain squalene if for no other reason than the FDA has not approved its use as an adjuvant here in the US. I know the international community has expressed concern that the US may not use adjuvants and risk “hogging” up limited resources. This is all ignoring the fact that there is no good evidence to suggest that squalene used as an adjuvant is harmful to begin with (Europe has safely used it).
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
tom63 wrote:
I never got a flu shot and never will unless I am mandated. you cannot protect against every strain. they often make you sick. And I’ve never had the flu. Ever.
These aren’t major pandemics, they are flus and they happen every year.
Why do it when it’s mandated?
mike
Loss of professional license, since I’m a health care provider, a chiropractor for example. Believe me, they would write things in like that.
Fair statement; I suppose we all have our own hill to die on…
mike[/quote]
You are such a romantic.
I prefer boots though, they move with me.
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
tom63 wrote:
I never got a flu shot and never will unless I am mandated. you cannot protect against every strain. they often make you sick. And I’ve never had the flu. Ever.
These aren’t major pandemics, they are flus and they happen every year.
Why do it when it’s mandated?
mike
Loss of professional license, since I’m a health care provider, a chiropractor for example. Believe me, they would write things in like that.
Fair statement; I suppose we all have our own hill to die on…
mike[/quote]
Along these same lines, didn’t you take the flu vaccine in the Marine Corps? Or anthrax for that matter?