T Nation

Man Ram and HCG


#1

For those who haven't heard yet, Man-Ram tested positive for hCG and is facing a 50 game suspension.

There of course will be more media coverage about the "cheaters ruining the game" and the "dangerous drugs" they use.


#2

Whats so fucking great is they keep saying you use it AFTER a steroid cycle, which is NOT FUCKING TRUE. If he were using it for steroids, he would of been using it during a cycle and they would have also identified the steroid, which they DIDNT. So the man, is probably hypogonadal and trying to improve his health, but instead gets banned for fifty fucking games.


#3

hahaha fucking bullshit.

Mabey he was using hCG for test boosting.

But it was prescribed to him by a doctor for a reason.

Im sure his doctor will have records of his bloodwork showing why he was prescribed it.


#4

Huh? They just caught on to it now (at least I heard it wasn't from a test actually) Which means he very well could have been using it for a while.

Your argument doesn't make sense, just sayin.


#5

I really hope he ends up clearing his name, in the article it says he was going to protest the suspension then decided not to. I know I sure as fuck would protest since it's gonna cost $7 million.

I don't think he or anyone should have to defend a medical condition in which a doctor prescribes medicine, especially one that could be embarassing to share with the world.


#6

It was leaked that he was being treated for ED. Can't verify that though. His personal business should not be made public anyway.

I believe that he was using it legitimately.

The only red flag is that he didn't file the paperwork to get a medical exemption. Since he didn't do that he deserves the suspension.

What's also annoying is how MLB claimed that after they noticed high T levels in the urine test that they determined the T was not produced naturally. My understanding is that hCG will stimulate testosterone production. The stimulated T is endogeneous, so how can they say it isn't natural? My bet is that they don't really know what they are talking about. Ignorance is bliss...

I don't think he was cheating because out of all the non-AAS drugs, hCG would have to be in the top 3 of performance enhancers. Behind hGH and amphetemines and possibly aromatase inhibitors. Who could be stupid enough to use such an obvious drug for PE purposes.


#7

You clearly have no idea how HcG (when on steriods) is used.


#8

The can only tell its not produced "naturally" (although technically it is because the testicles are making it) is because of the hCG metabolites.

They dont even have a very good way to detect say test E, they can only look at the T ratios to decide whos doping.

As usual the media has no idea what its talking about, and is just spouting random bullshit that they think sounds good.


#9

Please explain it to us then as I obviously don't know either. Thought I did but I guess not. I am guessing there are others in the same boat as well. Teach us oh wise one.


#10

I dont give a shit if you know or not. If you're interested learn how to read, and look at the stickies.


#11

SoontobeIFBB,

Lighten up a bit. The guy's here to learn. I'm sure you weren't blessed with all of your vast knowledge in one night. After all, we all can't be as gifted as you. Some of us just need to to make mistakes.

Second off, they noticed his high T levels, but as said earlier couldn't tell they were "unnatural" (as it was produced through the normal pathways that all T is produced). Rather, they also claim to have found "artificial" testosterone, meaning that his Test:Epitest ratio was out of whack. He may be getting charged with using HCG, but he got popped for the artificial test.

From the article:
"The sources said that in addition to the artificial testosterone, Ramirez was identified as using the female fertility drug human chorionic gonadotropin, or hCG."


#12

Soontobe- is hCG used after cycles at all? If so, my point is proven, if not, then my mistake


#13

No. If using it for therapeutic reasons it would be used solo. But for steroid purposes, it is only used while on a steroid cycle. You do not use it for PCT like the news was reporting.


#14

When did I ever claim myself as a guru? How did I come of as some pseudointellect? 2 posters said my argument did not make sense without even understanding how HcG is used (which would take about 2 seconds on this forum). I was pissed off yesterday but WTF, it's not my fault they didnt take the time to read before they posted.


#15

Not soontobe, but yes, it is still often used post-cycle. Can't give you a percentage breakdown, but I'm sure that a survey of AAS users would show that at least 25% use it in PCT regularly. That figure would be lower amongst members of this forum :wink:

Old-school it was almost entirely used post-cycle; now the body of knowledge has improved and we know that unless the testis really, really can't get going, it can be detrimental to complete recovery if using post-cycle, hence it's far more preferable to use it in small doses on-cycle and avoid high dose, ball-saving treatment.


#16

Yeah

It also crossed my mind that there's the chance that he was actually using AAS and they didn't catch it. They only caught on to the hCG and he figured he could have an easier time explaining the hCG. Im guessing he's trying to get this out of the spotlight as soon as possible to try to avoid any further prying into his off field activities.

I don't doubt that MLB will look into this much further, but still.


#17

Id say the percentage is even higher than 25. All of the guys that come up to me in the gym and ask about steroids always say something like "yeah of course, I got hCG and clomid and T booster and stuff like that" when I ask what their plans are for PCT. Most people aren't on internet forums looking for AAS advice. They just do what their friends tell them to do. Of course there are some knowledgeable people out there who don't frequent a good forum but it seems like trendy BroKnowledge spreads much faster than scientifically sound, research-based information that contradicts the layperson's common thinking.


#18

That's a good point. Shudders as he suddenly realizes that the average user probably falls below even typical bodybuilding dot com user knowledge levels...


#19

LOL if he really was using it for PCT, then I am glad he got caught for being an idiot. I have never, known someone to use it for PCT and I know a good amount of rec users. My point was that if they caught the HcG (and he was using it the right way) he would ALSO have been on actual AAS, which they could of found. What I think is more likely is, little manny was stepping up to the plate, so the doc gave him HcG for a little performance enhancing ; ).

I was in a wrotten mood yesterday-my bad guys.


#20

hCG can be used as an effective part of a PCT in proper conjunction with an SERM and an AI.
The suppression caused by the hCG will be much less significant if used properly with other drugs.

But certainly its much more effective to use on cycle, pretty standard knowledge no a days.