Male Gender Problems in My Multicultural Class

Off Topic
21

[quote]lifter85 wrote:
this is classic…it’s an online class, and one person has responded so far. who you ask? a guy who refuted me by saying his dad tried raising him with good “macho” qualities, but it wasn’t until he became an adult that he really started doing what he “truly” loved…making female purses. i’m not kidding. we’re dying, guys…even men are disagreeing with being strong and like a man.[/quote]

In my opinion, that guy is perfectly free to make female purses. He should do what makes him happy, and more power to him. What bothers me is, when I chose the strong traditional model of masculinity for myself, that I was looked at as the bad guy. Like the OP, when I was in college, my classes were infused with an anti-testosterone bias, and respecting traditional masculinity marked me as someone who needed to be lectured by the thought police. I had to walk on eggshells and apologise for every bad thing that any man ever did.

It’s the hypocrisy that pisses me off. The purse guy is free to make purses, and “celebrate” his rebranded version of manhood, but I can’t quietly work on my old-fashioned model.

22

I teach about gender and identity in most of my classes (college) and they are largely populated by education majors. I would have appreciated your comment in my class. I also go to some pains to use a feminist critique of feminist studies on body image to point out how too tightly held assumptions lead to bad research and dangerous conclusions. Also, the article points out that there is very little research on what it is to be a “man” and the experiences of men, especially white men.

If anyone wants the name of the article just pm me.

Also, for those interested. If you look at graduation rates of boys and girls from high school and college over the past twenty or so years there is a noticeable drop in male achievement. Some have hypothesized that this has to do with a shift in education pedagogy meant to improve the classroom environment for female students.

The effect I think has very little with biology but rather cultural expectations for boys and girls. And yes, more women in the workplace now. That trend will most likely continue in white collar and service sectors given current graduation trends.

23

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Professor X wrote:
artw wrote:
Personally, I think beer commercials and TV shows play a huge part in all of this. I mean seriously, look at them. The males are always these dudes who are portrayed as total dumbfucks who seem to care about two things: beer and sports. You see it in a lot of TV shows too. There must be women with dust-covered twats behind these shows and commercials because it seems like there’s this movement to portray men who aren’t just like women as a bunch of single-cell degenerates who spend all their time drinking beer and talking about trucks and sports and can barely remember their own fucking names.

If I was some ignorant little punk growing up now and was dumb enough to buy into that shit, I’d probably turn into some super-sensitive, emasculated emo douchebag too. There’s seems to be this dumbing down of “men’s men” to the point where if you are a man’s man kind of guy, you must be a complete fucking idiot. For every Jack Bauer or Vic Mackey on TV it seems as if there’s ten or twenty men like those two homos from Friends, Ross and Chandler. It’s time for real men to step it up and TAKE THE POWER BACK!

It may be a little late for that. I work in the medical field and most clinics I have been in (outside of the military) are usually predominantly female. If you speak up “too much” or are “too aggressive” in environments like that, you will get your ass handed to you by human resources.

You see, men waited too long to fix this problem and have now lost the fight. Young boys growing up now will think men are SUPPOSED to be near sub-human compared to women only here to answer their beck and call.

I am all for “women’s rights” but what we are seeing now is a tilt to the extreme in the favor of women in the work place.

So how do we stop them, X? My ideas aren’t good ones, so I ask your opinion.[/quote]

Stop them? We can’t even get enough men with brains in their head to stand together and make any noise about this. Where there used to be a very clear “good 'ole boy” network, there is now a growing “good 'ole girl” network and anyone who works in a professional setting has probably been witness to this. Women will stand together even if the woman they are protecting is actually in the wrong. Obviously this is a generalization but I have seen it many times over.

For instance, I have gotten much attitude from a couple of assistants in the past basically because they didn’t know what they were doing…however, even though I am the doc, I don’t pay them and am not their direct supervisor because I do not own the clinic (yes, I know that is eventually the goal). If I made noise about their lack of attention or lack of skill to their true supervisor (also a woman) I was reported to human resources because I made them feel bad…even though I said nothing directly to the assistant to correct her.

This is a true story, by the way.

We are screwed and have been for a while. The problem is, there are fewer males actually in high end professional positions so obviously no one barely making minimum wage is going to have much say so about this.

24

i got flamed again, this time by a female saying i’m completely sexist. this is what i responded with…

I’ll clarify to the parts you responded to. First, I’d like to say yes, students in general should be given those opportunities, but boys especially have a natural inclination for rougher/more rugged stuff. It’s the difference between testosterone and estrogen, and yes it is a natural trait.

By the second statement you responded to, yes it defines both sexes; I suppose what I was saying has more definition to it that I was just thinking of in my head and didn’t express. Basically, if you were to look at a dad in a family, they should be like a superhero to the children. Hard working, knowledgeable, patient, proper decision making, etc. The problem is most men don’t know how to be this anymore, hence why there are so many broken families, kids without dads, dads in jail, etc. Of course females still have the same role, but a mom isn’t going to have the same impact on a boy as a dad is. Call it wrong but I see it all too often.

As for the last statement, I believe there will continue to be a big debate on this issue. Everyone is free to their own opinions, as that’s exactly all my post was. I just personally sense a stemming of problems for boys when they look in magazines and see guys wearing makeup, skinny jeans, and other accessories. Not to mention guys are typically roled as stupid ignorant people on television, with the woman picking up the slack of the otherwise brain dead man. As it stands, I think the boys of our society would be better suited to learn a hunter/gatherer mentality than the dud roll most men are being portrayed as as of lately. Whether one thinks these things are necessary or not, the mentality still stands that the old western cowboy in your face hard working mentality is always going to be more powerful than the makeup wearing, skinny jeans boy who doesn’t feel the need to explore and be aggressive in working hard and helping a family.

Again this is just my opinion, I’m not sexist as I think women deserve just as many opportunities as men in EVERYTHING, I am only speaking in this discussion merely about why I think boys are confused and in trouble these days.

25

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Professor X wrote:
artw wrote:

I am all for “women’s rights” but what we are seeing now is a tilt to the extreme in the favor of women in the work place.

So how do we stop them, X? My ideas aren’t good ones, so I ask your opinion.[/quote]

Fellas… What we are facing is a cultural trend that is also common to Western Europe and Japan. The long term result of this trend is low to negative reproductive rate. (An effect already evident in W. Europe where the growing population are Muslims)

Now… The way to “fix” this is by using GAME and following a man’s nature and give no apologies.

Then pass these lessons to the younger generations, BUT it has to be done like this guy does it: http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays being “sensitive” about it is waste of time.

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
So it’s too late, men. We’re just gonna keep you around to do our chores and fulfill our sexual needs. And you will like it that way.
[/quote]

LOL!!! Oh don’t be silly…

Betas and weak men don’t make the gina tingle.
Case in point:
http://fbardamu.wordpress.com/2009/09/01/when-making-a-womans-gina-tingle-is-outlawed-only-outlaws-will-make-a-womans-gina-tingle/

26

[quote]Professor X wrote:

For instance, I have gotten much attitude from a couple of assistants in the past basically because they didn’t know what they were doing…however, even though I am the doc, I don’t pay them and am not their direct supervisor because I do not own the clinic (yes, I know that is eventually the goal). If I made noise about their lack of attention or lack of skill to their true supervisor (also a woman) I was reported to human resources because I made them feel bad…even though I said nothing directly to the assistant to correct her.
[/quote]

What really sucks about your story is, even when you do own your own clinic, you will still have to deal with this bullshit in the form of discrimination lawsuits and other petty harassment.

27

[quote]Professor X wrote:
WolBarret wrote:
Professor X wrote:
artw wrote:
Personally, I think beer commercials and TV shows play a huge part in all of this. I mean seriously, look at them. The males are always these dudes who are portrayed as total dumbfucks who seem to care about two things: beer and sports. You see it in a lot of TV shows too. There must be women with dust-covered twats behind these shows and commercials because it seems like there’s this movement to portray men who aren’t just like women as a bunch of single-cell degenerates who spend all their time drinking beer and talking about trucks and sports and can barely remember their own fucking names.

If I was some ignorant little punk growing up now and was dumb enough to buy into that shit, I’d probably turn into some super-sensitive, emasculated emo douchebag too. There’s seems to be this dumbing down of “men’s men” to the point where if you are a man’s man kind of guy, you must be a complete fucking idiot. For every Jack Bauer or Vic Mackey on TV it seems as if there’s ten or twenty men like those two homos from Friends, Ross and Chandler. It’s time for real men to step it up and TAKE THE POWER BACK!

It may be a little late for that. I work in the medical field and most clinics I have been in (outside of the military) are usually predominantly female. If you speak up “too much” or are “too aggressive” in environments like that, you will get your ass handed to you by human resources.

You see, men waited too long to fix this problem and have now lost the fight. Young boys growing up now will think men are SUPPOSED to be near sub-human compared to women only here to answer their beck and call.

I am all for “women’s rights” but what we are seeing now is a tilt to the extreme in the favor of women in the work place.

So how do we stop them, X? My ideas aren’t good ones, so I ask your opinion.

Stop them? We can’t even get enough men with brains in their head to stand together and make any noise about this. Where there used to be a very clear “good 'ole boy” network, there is now a growing “good 'ole girl” network and anyone who works in a professional setting has probably been witness to this. Women will stand together even if the woman they are protecting is actually in the wrong. Obviously this is a generalization but I have seen it many times over.

For instance, I have gotten much attitude from a couple of assistants in the past basically because they didn’t know what they were doing…however, even though I am the doc, I don’t pay them and am not their direct supervisor because I do not own the clinic (yes, I know that is eventually the goal). If I made noise about their lack of attention or lack of skill to their true supervisor (also a woman) I was reported to human resources because I made them feel bad…even though I said nothing directly to the assistant to correct her.

This is a true story, by the way.

We are screwed and have been for a while. The problem is, there are fewer males actually in high end professional positions so obviously no one barely making minimum wage is going to have much say so about this.[/quote]

Hot damn that’s some bs right there, my dad has been telling me stuff like this for years but I thought he was the only one noticing it so it wasn’t really a big deal.

28

We have an American cast system. We categorize everyone by physical/psychological attributes. Sex, Race and sexual orientation are the standard of performance. This should not fucking matter. If you are a tool it doesnâ??t matter what color, sex or hole you drill. America has gotten away from QUALITY in every aspect of our culture. If I am unconscious in a burning building I donâ??t give a shit if a man or woman saves me, just save my burning ass. So if a woman can pass the same physical requirements to be a firefighter than great, the problem is we lower the standard for a woman. With this example an average size woman cannot pick up someone of my stature, so I will fucking die. Men need to grow a pair and take pride in what we bring to the world. That is the big reason I go this site, it is the last bastion of male pride.

29

[quote]DJHT wrote:
We have an American cast system. We categorize everyone by physical/psychological attributes. Sex, Race and sexual orientation are the standard of performance. This should not fucking matter. If you are a tool it doesnâ??t matter what color, sex or hole you drill. America has gotten away from QUALITY in every aspect of our culture. If I am unconscious in a burning building I donâ??t give a shit if a man or woman saves me, just save my burning ass. So if a woman can pass the same physical requirements to be a firefighter than great, the problem is we lower the standard for a woman. With this example an average size woman cannot pick up someone of my stature, so I will fucking die. Men need to grow a pair and take pride in what we bring to the world. That is the big reason I go this site, it is the last bastion of male pride. [/quote]

Very well said.

30

[quote]Professor X wrote:
artw wrote:
Personally, I think beer commercials and TV shows play a huge part in all of this. I mean seriously, look at them. The males are always these dudes who are portrayed as total dumbfucks who seem to care about two things: beer and sports. You see it in a lot of TV shows too. There must be women with dust-covered twats behind these shows and commercials because it seems like there’s this movement to portray men who aren’t just like women as a bunch of single-cell degenerates who spend all their time drinking beer and talking about trucks and sports and can barely remember their own fucking names.

If I was some ignorant little punk growing up now and was dumb enough to buy into that shit, I’d probably turn into some super-sensitive, emasculated emo douchebag too. There’s seems to be this dumbing down of “men’s men” to the point where if you are a man’s man kind of guy, you must be a complete fucking idiot. For every Jack Bauer or Vic Mackey on TV it seems as if there’s ten or twenty men like those two homos from Friends, Ross and Chandler. It’s time for real men to step it up and TAKE THE POWER BACK!

It may be a little late for that. I work in the medical field and most clinics I have been in (outside of the military) are usually predominantly female. If you speak up “too much” or are “too aggressive” in environments like that, you will get your ass handed to you by human resources.

You see, men waited too long to fix this problem and have now lost the fight. Young boys growing up now will think men are SUPPOSED to be near sub-human compared to women only here to answer their beck and call.

I am all for “women’s rights” but what we are seeing now is a tilt to the extreme in the favor of women in the work place.[/quote]

My Human Resources professor has worked in HR for many different sized companies. The stories she’s told us would have you shitting yourself. Innocent compliments even pertaining to work or even looking at a girl in an “agressive manner” can have you flat on your ass. Pretty ridiculous.

32

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Stop them? We can’t even get enough men with brains in their head to stand together and make any noise about this. Where there used to be a very clear “good 'ole boy” network, there is now a growing “good 'ole girl” network and anyone who works in a professional setting has probably been witness to this. Women will stand together even if the woman they are protecting is actually in the wrong. Obviously this is a generalization but I have seen it many times over.
[/quote]

I’ve noticed that this girl network, while girls are at the core, can also include men in the periphery as tools to be used by the girls for their own ends. The sad thing is, these guys aren’t even getting laid for their duties so why they side with the girls I don’t know.

[quote]
For instance, I have gotten much attitude from a couple of assistants in the past basically because they didn’t know what they were doing…however, even though I am the doc, I don’t pay them and am not their direct supervisor because I do not own the clinic (yes, I know that is eventually the goal). If I made noise about their lack of attention or lack of skill to their true supervisor (also a woman) I was reported to human resources because I made them feel bad…even though I said nothing directly to the assistant to correct her.[/quote]

Sounds like a “princess” type. She’s infallible. “I’m incompetent? Why can’t people see this from MY side? I’m so oppressed! He’s making me FEEL BAD! That’s MUCH worse than my potentially screwing up a patient.”

When you finally own and operate your own business, you could just hire men only. While not a long term solution for men in general, it could work for you specifically.

[quote]
This is a true story, by the way.

We are screwed and have been for a while. The problem is, there are fewer males actually in high end professional positions so obviously no one barely making minimum wage is going to have much say so about this.[/quote]

A men’s revolution seems unlikely. Women got their revolution because we were without a doubt in power and holding them back. Until it is undisputed that the tides have turned, nothing done will be PC enough to have a leg to stand on. I’m for women’s rights too, but if I’m expected to sacrifice for a girl who is not willing to make the same sacrifice for me, that is NOT equal.

33

Shouldn’t BOTH parents be like a superhero? Better to have Superman and Wonder Woman rather than Superman and Lois Lane.

34

Yes sir Mr. Push, I try to be a half-glass full (Guinness preferably) type of guy. :slight_smile:

35

[quote]xylitol wrote:
Maybe people aren’t looking deeply enough into the changed gender roles?

http://www.datingsecretsformen.com/2009/08/24/the-feminism-problem-part-i/

In this article, the author argues that both the reversion to the cowboy of days past, and the pussified whipped male we have today, are wrong directions for the male gender. His argument is that women have evolved in their roles, raised the bar, and now men must evolve in our roles as well. He believes that we need to find a mission, a life purpose, and devote ourselves to that in order to complete our evolution and get in touch with our inner maleness that has been suppressed due to the change in womens’ roles and the confusion spat at us from a mixed-up society.

I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on both articles in the series.[/quote]

I’m still making my way through the article, but thought the author made a good point about anger, resentment and the influence of feminism on society.

[quote]Since the rise of feminism, the divorce rate has dramatically increased and men are quietly developing an unhealthy anger towards women, a resentment at a new disenfranchisement - the unfairness and inequality in the cultural, social and dating circles which is profoundly stacked against men. We are now seeing a growing circus of men acting this anger out in horribly destructive ways with potentially devastating consequences.[/quote]

I think this is a pretty accurate statement about what is going on (or at least, one of the things going on). And the anger that he mentions is pretty easy to see even on here in some of the members’ posts when topics related to feminism, sexual equality, and “alpha males” come up.

Also, the topic of boys in school has come up several times in various classes, and unlike some of the other teachers on here have said, my courses have actually discussed the harm that we are doing to our boys and ways to tackle the problem.

As far as I’m concerned, we are all screwed if things continue the way that they are going. High school dropouts and kids in special education courses are disproportionately male and women are beginning to outnumber men in colleges. What good is it to have a highly educated female population when the boys are now falling behind?

36

University is another huge issue in this debate. High school’s have been feminized, girls get higher scores more girls get into university has been a common argument. But the feminization of high school is NOTHING compared to that of the Liberal Arts. Every philosophy, communication, criminology etc etc class HAS to talk about feminism and criticalism, no excuses. Consider a class called Advertising and Society.

I look at this class and think excellent learn how to advertise, that’s a huge field of work, tons of money and tons of potential, I’m down. In reality this class is ALL about how advertising adversly affects the plight of women by sexualizing and infanticizing them in ads(bitches make more than I do, sign me up to be infanticized!)

Media studies, advertising, public relations and on and on and on. None of these classes teach HOW to do ANYTHING! All they do is talk about the detrimental affects they have on society. University is literally a socialist, pinko bitch fest. You get a degree to learn how to become a part of society. And who teaches you? People who have divorced themselves from reality to stand in judgement of it with 8 years of “education” that leaves them with nothing but disdain for capitalism, ambition, drive, agression and adaptability. And its not just women professors teaching this view point but women as well.

In short a bachelor degree is quickly becoming the equivalent of a high school degree. More and more people are going, so it doesn’t really get you anything… it just keeps you equal. And the mind numbing crap you learn while your there leaves you with talent for nothing but analyzing why some rich skinny bitch is worse off than your underemployed, over debted sorry ass.

/rant

37

fuck it took awhile to find this quote. but it’s one i really enjoy.

â??Midshipmen and cadets remain stronger and more aggressive than their male counterparts at civilian schools. They eagerly play sports such as rugby, boxing, karate, lacrosse, and football. They drive fast cars, usually sports cars. They play hard. They drink hard. They are physical, often abusive among each other. They are not trying to prove their manhood: they are celebrating their masculinity. They are competitive, often vulgar, and tough, and every citizen who may someday send a friend or relative into war should rejoice, because combat is competitive, vulgar, and tough, and they will be leading men in combat.â??

Thomas L Jackson

fmr sec of the navy.

yes, in general i think dudes are becoming entirely to limp-wristed

38

[quote]pushharder wrote:
DJHT wrote:
…this site, it is the last bastion of male pride.

This is worthy of debate.[/quote]

Portions of this site are, but there are plenty of leg hair shaving, tight jeans wearing, guys who will sink to new lows in order to obtain some tail all over the place on here too. Luckily this site isnt the last safe haven for manhood. Check a local fire station or police station, and Im sure military base too, and youll see plenty of guys representing the more testosterone-enhanced sex.

39

Portions of this site are, but there are plenty of leg hair shaving, tight jeans wearing, guys who will sink to new lows in order to obtain some tail all over the place on here too. Luckily this site isnt the last safe haven for manhood. Check a local fire station or police station, and Im sure military base too, and youll see plenty of guys representing the more testosterone-enhanced sex.

So by this argument people like me and Professor X since we work in the medical field are not “representing the more testosterone-enhanced sex”? My point is that due to my level of education and field of work forums such as these at least allow me some conversation with select individuals. I have worked in ER’s and family practice for 18 years and is dominated by women. So unless I quit and go work in a male dominated field this is all I got. And at least we can make fun of the guys who trade in their nuts for poon. Also thank you for your choice in profession I for one am grateful for all you guys do.

40

[quote]DJHT wrote:

So by this argument people like me and Professor X since we work in the medical field are not “representing the more testosterone-enhanced sex”? My point is that due to my level of education and field of work forums such as these at least allow me some conversation with select individuals. I have worked in ER’s and family practice for 18 years and is dominated by women. So unless I quit and go work in a male dominated field this is all I got. And at least we can make fun of the guys who trade in their nuts for poon. Also thank you for your choice in profession I for one am grateful for all you guys do. [/quote]

oh come on now djht, u know he was just making generalizations.