T Nation

Male Gender Problems in My Multicultural Class

so i’m in a education masters class right now regarding multicultural education. i just got finished reading a section about males, and how they get in the most trouble, are most susceptible to being in special ed classes, etc.

it immediately got me thinking of the typical principals TC often talks about for men, and how our society has become so female oriented these days. it seems most kids these days only see magazines filled with fashion for women, shows on TV based around girls and even nickelodeon shows where the guys quite frankly are very girly. as well, boys are always told that if they’re aggressive, adventurous, or opinionated, they need to suppress it immediately because it is dangerous. you walk around a mall and see an infinite amount of emaciated boys that you honestly couldn’t tell if they were a boy or a girl anymore.

i responded basically by saying that i believe boys need to get into a little bit of trouble, be aggressive, and sometimes get caught doing things, but instead of being punished, have a conversation with a strong morally upright man, letting them know that their curiosity and aggression was natural, but that a real man learns how to control that aggression and put it into use for the good (like a superhero). the problem today stems from boys being so dang confused as to what to do because they’re basically told that every natural instinct they have is from the devil, and it should be suppressed. this, along with no morally upright strong men to talk to, leads our boys to be dumbed down so to speak.

so, to sum up, am i wrong for stating what i did? it’s an education class full of girls so i’m sure i’ll be anihilated there, but whatever.

If the girls in your class get pissed, then that’s just a good example of testosterone poisoning at work.

I think you are very right. I feel like im one of the only normal people in my universe sometimes… I love power tools, hiking, fishing and any sport but soccer.I would never cheat on a girl, never. I don’t do things first and think later…I remember one guy describing how he “dropped the ball” literally and threw a bowling ball through a parked car window…it was awesome at the time but then the cops came. I’m generally honest and hard working.I hate emo kids. I wear jeans and T shirts, the way every man should dress.I value the input of a girl friend but unless I feel its her business also then im making the decision.My best friend is one of the most pussy whipped guys there is,his girlfriend actually holds his money and she controls what he buys…they are saving money for an apartment after all…shes never had a job. I’ve been lucky, I have a strong father figure and strong values.

Maybe people aren’t looking deeply enough into the changed gender roles?

http://www.datingsecretsformen.com/2009/08/24/the-feminism-problem-part-i/

In this article, the author argues that both the reversion to the cowboy of days past, and the pussified whipped male we have today, are wrong directions for the male gender. His argument is that women have evolved in their roles, raised the bar, and now men must evolve in our roles as well. He believes that we need to find a mission, a life purpose, and devote ourselves to that in order to complete our evolution and get in touch with our inner maleness that has been suppressed due to the change in womens’ roles and the confusion spat at us from a mixed-up society.

I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on both articles in the series.

[quote]lifter85 wrote:

so, to sum up, am i wrong for stating what i did? it’s an education class full of girls so i’m sure i’ll be anihilated there, but whatever.[/quote]

Wrong for stating the truth? Fuck no. Be in your face and unapologetic about it, and you’ll even make their gina’s tingle.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Let me explain something here, “social norms” or the “status quo” has fucked up this world. Woman may be equal in arbitrary ways/laws/regulations/etc., they are however not true equals.

Sure you can have a strong woman, I like…actually I love a strong woman. I personally hate a fucking drag along, do nothing, lazy Susan. I’ll tell you what, ain’t no woman that I am with is going to make more money than me. You know why, if I’m making X dollars and I am with a woman, and she makes Y dollars, in a year or less I’ll be making Y+ dollars. But, now a days men do not care if their wife is the breadwinner, fuck that, I am the breadwinner no motherfucking questions asked. Not to be sexist, but when I am with a girl I expect shit to be done by her, I really do not give a fuck if she does work. I expect shit to be clean, and I expect food to be on the table. Working maybe a right, but it’s optional when it comes to me. The other shit however is not, I need someone feminine. I do not need my girlfriend to watch football with me and my buddies. I do not need my girlfriend to be my business partner, hell I do not even talk about work to my girlfriends, ain’t none of their business.

And another example if we went to living in the wild, guess what woman would once again have to do, they would have to depend on men. Sure argue all you want, say, “live in reality.” I do live in reality, my reality, and I fucking enjoy it.

And if you really do believe that women are actually our equals (that does not mean we do not treat them kindly) then explain to me why the only two women, in the top ten richest people in the world, are heirs of some country ass mother fucker from Arkansas named Sam Walton (which I deeply respect).

OP, I share your feelings and environment as I am doing my PhD in Education right now and am literally the only guy in my department… Really strange atmosphere.

Seriously, raise your voice, who cares what they think. Plus you’ll be able to assess your professors’ worth/bias depending on the outcome/comments.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Let me explain something here, “social norms” or the “status quo” has fucked up this world. Woman may be equal in arbitrary ways/laws/regulations/etc., they are however not true equals.

Sure you can have a strong woman, I like…actually I love a strong woman. I personally hate a fucking drag along, do nothing, lazy Susan. I’ll tell you what, ain’t no woman that I am with is going to make more money than me. You know why, if I’m making X dollars and I am with a woman, and she makes Y dollars, in a year or less I’ll be making Y+ dollars. But, now a days men do not care if their wife is the breadwinner, fuck that, I am the breadwinner no motherfucking questions asked. Not to be sexist, but when I am with a girl I expect shit to be done by her, I really do not give a fuck if she does work. I expect shit to be clean, and I expect food to be on the table. Working maybe a right, but it’s optional when it comes to me. The other shit however is not, I need someone feminine. I do not need my girlfriend to watch football with me and my buddies. I do not need my girlfriend to be my business partner, hell I do not even talk about work to my girlfriends, ain’t none of their business.

And another example if we went to living in the wild, guess what woman would once again have to do, they would have to depend on men. Sure argue all you want, say, “live in reality.” I do live in reality, my reality, and I fucking enjoy it.

And if you really do believe that women are actually our equals (that does not mean we do not treat them kindly) then explain to me why the only two women, in the top ten richest people in the world, are heirs of some country ass mother fucker from Arkansas named Sam Walton (which I deeply respect).[/quote]

I don’t know who you are, but that was a damn good post. 2005 is the best class ever!

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
lifter85 wrote:

so, to sum up, am i wrong for stating what i did? it’s an education class full of girls so i’m sure i’ll be anihilated there, but whatever.

Wrong for stating the truth? Fuck no. Be in your face and unapologetic about it, and you’ll even make their gina’s tingle.[/quote]

x3

Seriously.

And in case of doubt with how to behave with the women around you… err on the side of boldness. They will love you for it.

Personally, I think beer commercials and TV shows play a huge part in all of this. I mean seriously, look at them. The males are always these dudes who are portrayed as total dumbfucks who seem to care about two things: beer and sports. You see it in a lot of TV shows too. There must be women with dust-covered twats behind these shows and commercials because it seems like there’s this movement to portray men who aren’t just like women as a bunch of single-cell degenerates who spend all their time drinking beer and talking about trucks and sports and can barely remember their own fucking names.

If I was some ignorant little punk growing up now and was dumb enough to buy into that shit, I’d probably turn into some super-sensitive, emasculated emo douchebag too. There’s seems to be this dumbing down of “men’s men” to the point where if you are a man’s man kind of guy, you must be a complete fucking idiot. For every Jack Bauer or Vic Mackey on TV it seems as if there’s ten or twenty men like those two homos from Friends, Ross and Chandler. It’s time for real men to step it up and TAKE THE POWER BACK!

[quote]artw wrote:
Personally, I think beer commercials and TV shows play a huge part in all of this. I mean seriously, look at them. The males are always these dudes who are portrayed as total dumbfucks who seem to care about two things: beer and sports. You see it in a lot of TV shows too. There must be women with dust-covered twats behind these shows and commercials because it seems like there’s this movement to portray men who aren’t just like women as a bunch of single-cell degenerates who spend all their time drinking beer and talking about trucks and sports and can barely remember their own fucking names.

If I was some ignorant little punk growing up now and was dumb enough to buy into that shit, I’d probably turn into some super-sensitive, emasculated emo douchebag too. There’s seems to be this dumbing down of “men’s men” to the point where if you are a man’s man kind of guy, you must be a complete fucking idiot. For every Jack Bauer or Vic Mackey on TV it seems as if there’s ten or twenty men like those two homos from Friends, Ross and Chandler. It’s time for real men to step it up and TAKE THE POWER BACK![/quote]

It may be a little late for that. I work in the medical field and most clinics I have been in (outside of the military) are usually predominantly female. If you speak up “too much” or are “too aggressive” in environments like that, you will get your ass handed to you by human resources.

You see, men waited too long to fix this problem and have now lost the fight. Young boys growing up now will think men are SUPPOSED to be near sub-human compared to women only here to answer their beck and call.

I am all for “women’s rights” but what we are seeing now is a tilt to the extreme in the favor of women in the work place.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
artw wrote:
Personally, I think beer commercials and TV shows play a huge part in all of this. I mean seriously, look at them. The males are always these dudes who are portrayed as total dumbfucks who seem to care about two things: beer and sports. You see it in a lot of TV shows too. There must be women with dust-covered twats behind these shows and commercials because it seems like there’s this movement to portray men who aren’t just like women as a bunch of single-cell degenerates who spend all their time drinking beer and talking about trucks and sports and can barely remember their own fucking names.

If I was some ignorant little punk growing up now and was dumb enough to buy into that shit, I’d probably turn into some super-sensitive, emasculated emo douchebag too. There’s seems to be this dumbing down of “men’s men” to the point where if you are a man’s man kind of guy, you must be a complete fucking idiot. For every Jack Bauer or Vic Mackey on TV it seems as if there’s ten or twenty men like those two homos from Friends, Ross and Chandler. It’s time for real men to step it up and TAKE THE POWER BACK!

It may be a little late for that. I work in the medical field and most clinics I have been in (outside of the military) are usually predominantly female. If you speak up “too much” or are “too aggressive” in environments like that, you will get your ass handed to you by human resources.

You see, men waited too long to fix this problem and have now lost the fight. Young boys growing up now will think men are SUPPOSED to be near sub-human compared to women only here to answer their beck and call.

I am all for “women’s rights” but what we are seeing now is a tilt to the extreme in the favor of women in the work place.[/quote]

So how do we stop them, X? My ideas aren’t good ones, so I ask your opinion.

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Professor X wrote:

I am all for “women’s rights” but what we are seeing now is a tilt to the extreme in the favor of women in the work place.

So how do we stop them, X? My ideas aren’t good ones, so I ask your opinion.[/quote]

There IS no stopping us.

Out in the street
You don’t survive by being weak
This is our time
Walls were made for us to climb

Don’t you try to lock us out
'Cause we’re breaking down the doors
And, oh, we’re prepared to fight, baby

So it’s too late, men. We’re just gonna keep you around to do our chores and fulfill our sexual needs. And you will like it that way.

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
So it’s too late, men. We’re just gonna keep you around to do our chores and fulfill our sexual needs. And you will like it that way. Oh and we need you to keep inventing stuff because that patent office told us we aren’t any good at it.
[/quote]

Fixed it for you MASTER.

Does anyone else think the shift in the US economy from being primarily manufacturing and production driven to more service and knowledge driven has had an effect? In the past, there were a lot more blue collar jobs, which were primarily held by men, and professional jobs were more scarce.

Now, a large percentage of those blue collar jobs are in other countries, and a much larger percentage of the workforce is comprised of females. Not sure if this is a coincidence or not, I’m just throwing ideas around.

[quote]lifter85 wrote:
i responded basically by saying that i believe boys need to get into a little bit of trouble, be aggressive, and sometimes get caught doing things, but instead of being punished, have a conversation with a strong morally upright man, letting them know that their curiosity and aggression was natural, but that a real man learns how to control that aggression and put it into use for the good (like a superhero). the problem today stems from boys being so dang confused as to what to do because they’re basically told that every natural instinct they have is from the devil, and it should be suppressed. this, along with no morally upright strong men to talk to, leads our boys to be dumbed down so to speak.

so, to sum up, am i wrong for stating what i did? it’s an education class full of girls so i’m sure i’ll be anihilated there, but whatever.[/quote]

You were right to speak up. Try this on for size. As I have written in a couple of other posts, we live in a service-oriented economy now. Older ideas of conformism, equality etc. are pretty much moot. In the Middle Ages, if you got out of line you were tarred and feathered then chased out of town to probably die in the country-side.

Now what happens? Not much. If people don’t like you, fuck 'em. You can still go shopping at the mall. We don’t have many physical threats (hungry lions) but mostly existential ones (“do people like me?”). The biggest problem is alienation in this society, not some oppressive conformism.

I’ll say it straight up. Being in academia, what I see overwhelmingly is that small-mindedness is now sacred. I mean that. Rather than treat men like humans it is fashionable to assume they are all knuckle-draggers (like Einstein, Shakespeare or Mozart, per chance?). This is an ideological statement, not a factual one.

The basis of all morality is putting the good of the group first and in particular, treating those less fortunate than oneself well. You want to piss them off? Next time someone says something about “men” replace “men” with “black men”. It will sound like the local KKK Grand Dragon just spoke. Hey, if it applies to men it applies to the Black ones too…

Pernicious myths

#1 Men don’t matter – women can do it all. When women talk of equality, they mean being president of IBM. They don’t mean going into the mines or becoming a trash collector. A service-based economy means that men are still doing a hugely disproportionate amount of the work, you just don’t see them.

#2 Men are aggressive. All animals are aggressive or the are out of the food chain. A large part of socialization for both sexes is to learn how to channel this into determination. Actually men are still getting this, albeit with a strong ideological slant. Women are getting less of this and it is now getting to be a common myth that they have to be “strong” – which normally boils down to having them pick fights and get away with it.

There has been a steep rise in female to female violence and I am afraid that “liberation” for women will just make them as thuggish as the men they so disdain.

#3 There is a war between the sexes. Not from our end, so quit pissing us off. I mean that. One list I am on had a woman post some simply mind-bogglingly bad analysis about tango, explaining that her highly questionable conclusions were justified because “the sexism is always there. You just have to find it.” I.e. let’s lie for a good cause and if you don’t like it, you just prove our point.

#4 Women have a primal knowledge they must tap into. Nope. A lot of explanations of why we need Women’s Studies boil down to saying that women don’t think like men, proceed largely intuitively and cannot be held to Western = patriarchal standards. In short, they make every argument that a good Victorian gentleman would give as to why women have no place outside the home. WTF? I mean seriously W - T - F?!

#5 Men are dying out. Oh brother. Some years back a study purporting this was written. Near as I can tell, it was to be a joke, but that really doesn’t matter anymore, since it has attained the status of myth. Supposedly evolution has weighed in on male-ness and in not so many years there will be no moare males on Earth. Now if nothing else, the timing of this is just too rich for words. Just as we have a social movement, Biology comes to the rescue?

#6 Women get paid a fraction of what men do. Bullshit. 100%, pure, unadulterated bullshit. In point of fact, the Federal Equal Wage Act of 1963 put and end to that and every employer must explain their payscales. The rub is that this fact – which was current in the early 1950’s, has been so recycled you can’t kill it.

One recent attempt to redo this at a hospital made it a point of pooling all salaries. So the nurses and cleaning ladies were pitted against the male doctors. Sure, there were pay inequities, but they were completely explainable by such trivialities as education and skill. When they compared by education, these discrepancies magically vanished. Oops.

Sorry. I just shouldn’t write these before breakfast.

And as always, I might just be full of shit…

– jj

this is classic…it’s an online class, and one person has responded so far. who you ask? a guy who refuted me by saying his dad tried raising him with good “macho” qualities, but it wasn’t until he became an adult that he really started doing what he “truly” loved…making female purses. i’m not kidding. we’re dying, guys…even men are disagreeing with being strong and like a man.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Let me explain something here, “social norms” or the “status quo” has fucked up this world. Woman may be equal in arbitrary ways/laws/regulations/etc., they are however not true equals.

Sure you can have a strong woman, I like…actually I love a strong woman. I personally hate a fucking drag along, do nothing, lazy Susan. I’ll tell you what, ain’t no woman that I am with is going to make more money than me. You know why, if I’m making X dollars and I am with a woman, and she makes Y dollars, in a year or less I’ll be making Y+ dollars. But, now a days men do not care if their wife is the breadwinner, fuck that, I am the breadwinner no motherfucking questions asked. Not to be sexist, but when I am with a girl I expect shit to be done by her, I really do not give a fuck if she does work. I expect shit to be clean, and I expect food to be on the table. Working maybe a right, but it’s optional when it comes to me. The other shit however is not, I need someone feminine. I do not need my girlfriend to watch football with me and my buddies. I do not need my girlfriend to be my business partner, hell I do not even talk about work to my girlfriends, ain’t none of their business.

And another example if we went to living in the wild, guess what woman would once again have to do, they would have to depend on men. Sure argue all you want, say, “live in reality.” I do live in reality, my reality, and I fucking enjoy it.

And if you really do believe that women are actually our equals (that does not mean we do not treat them kindly) then explain to me why the only two women, in the top ten richest people in the world, are heirs of some country ass mother fucker from Arkansas named Sam Walton (which I deeply respect).[/quote]

Fuck yeah man. This should be required reading for everyone.

most teachers put males in special ed classes because they are boring, crappy, and worthless teachers and boys need more stimulation then girls to keep their focus… most teachers can’t do that so they put the “problem” students in special ed… happened to me when I was younger, my dad and principle sat through my class and within 10 minutes was bored out of their minds… needless to say, the realized it wasnt me or the other boys, just the crappy ass teacher…

As for fixing this situation… I really think men did this to themselves a little also, allowing their sons to grow up with a male figure in their life they dont learn the things they need to learn… how to be tough yet still gentle round your lady… Hell, most of my friends boys are not even in scouts… how can you grow up without camping, shotting guns, fishing and roughing it?? nah, lets have the boys and girls play nicely together…