T Nation

Making My Own Periworkout

Supplements and Nutrition
#21

Thanks for the link Bill, tons of information in that one thread. I guess I should have been more clear though. What I meant by mixing and matching was helping me create a drink using stuff like BCAA’s/ Lecuine, and gatorade powder (just and example as idk what should be included), rather than an actual premade supplement (like Surge/Anaconda) .

Any chance you could help me devise a good “recipe”, and compare it to Surge products. I know that is pretty in depth and a lot to ask but I would appreciate the effort. If not you’ve already been really helpful so far

#22

Ah, gotcha.

I’ve never looked into Gatorade powder and so don’t know what that starting point is. I’m familiar with the content of the Gatorade drinks though and really and truly, that product is a matter of key marketing principles executed well. These principles include “It’s better to be first than to be better.”

The first brand in a category usually becomes and remains the market leader. What’s the difference between Tylenol and other brands of acetaminophen? It’s the identical substance, identical dosing, identical really in every way but brand name. The difference is, Tylenol was first.

Advil? The first ibuprofen brand to enter, still the leader decades later. Again, no actual difference in product.

Gatorade was the first sports drink and that, combined with competent follow-up marketing and a big ad budget every year, is why it is the market leader. The reason isn’t that it’s better than any run of the mill stuff.

Unless having it on hand already, I wouldn’t see a reason to start with it. 1/4 tsp of salt and 1/4 tsp of “light salt” (potassium chloride) and there are your electrolytes. Or 1/2 tsp of a salt that is already a premix of the two. Glucose can be purchased at the health food stores; maltodextrin isn’t hard to order. Actually there are many grades to maltodextrin and differing properties with regard to how easily it dissolves, but for a basic effort that shouldn’t be too much of a deal. If you use only glucose that would be fine for lower carb content such as up to about 50 g/L, but for higher carb content it would be desirable to combine with maltodextrin or use maltodextrin only.

As for the leucine, 5-10 g of total leucine content. If using BCAA’s, 10-25 g. At the higher amounts there would be no need to add separate leucine as well.

You’d still be short on having a hydrolyzed protein.

#23

I’m not a logo whore,and I get nothing from a bottle of gatorade,but for some reason the container of powdered gatorade from grocery store is different(wish I had a can here at home,suddenly curious)two scoops of this with a little whey gives awesome pumps,I swear. anyway I’m off to surf the net, to find gatorade info(snowed in today)latter

#24

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
Thanks for the link Bill, tons of information in that one thread. I guess I should have been more clear though. What I meant by mixing and matching was helping me create a drink using stuff like BCAA’s/ Lecuine, and gatorade powder (just and example as idk what should be included), rather than an actual premade supplement (like Surge/Anaconda) .

Any chance you could help me devise a good “recipe”, and compare it to Surge products. I know that is pretty in depth and a lot to ask but I would appreciate the effort. If not you’ve already been really helpful so far [/quote]

In short and i think what Bill may agree with is you can try to duplicate things all you want through your own raw materials but in the end its more of a pain in the ass and only marginally saves you money in the long run. It’s much easier to simply take something that is already proven and formulated precisely and spend that extra time your not mixing a 100 things together on training and diet.

#25

oh and I believe maltodextrin can be purchased cheap at whine making store(heard this on line, so never know)

#26

for myself it’s hard to give suplement recomondations, becauese I respect what T nation provides us with,and it’s probably easier like easy said to just buy it

#27

Just a question, why do you reccommend Surge recovery as opposed to Surge workout fuel? I’m not doubting you, just curious as to this decision.

#28

It depends on whether getting the protein hydrolysate is important, given the circumstance, or isn’t. For example with most athletic training there really isn’t a need for much protein intake, if any. If not, then SWF has other advantages that SR does not (citrulline malate, beta alanine, and a carb formulation that gives lower osmolality and can give faster stomach emptying, as well as having palatinose.)

Personally I favor a pretty high protein intake from hydroysate for pre- and during workout, so that’s why the SR when planning for a lower cost protocol that doesn’t include Anaconda or MAG-10.

#29

Thanks BIll. One last set of questions and I’ll leave you alone haha. I’ve decided to go with either SR or SWF and creatine. I can def afford this for the next 5 months but my living situation will change after and I may have to scrap it. We’ll see. I have a few questions though

  1. creatine monohydrate vs creatine malate. ( I was thinking of going with malate cause of previous GI issues)

  2. SR or SWF, (my main goal is increasing muscle mass and strength, I’m currently bulking)

  3. Lastly creatine says to drink immediately after mixing. Is it bad if I mix with SR or SWF and drink half a little before session, then the rest during? Or will this cause upset stomach or reduced effects?

Thanks so much again BIll you’ve been extremely helpful and really informative.

#30

Creatine malate is so inexpensive, 5 cents per serving, that even when quite short of money when finding any added benefit at all versus the monohydrate, it’s being really cheap to miss that benefit for the sake of 5 cents. And actually it’s not even a savings of 5 cents because that was treating the monohydrate as free, when although it’s low priced also, it’s not completely free.

SR in this situation, due to the hydrolysate.

There’s no problem of any kind with using the creatine as you describe. It takes much longer than this for it to lose potency.

You’re very welcome!

#31

[quote]Eazy wrote:
You shouldn’t even consider something like Carbolin 19 at this point in time, focus on some of the basics, first be sure your diet is in check and that you’re eating the proper amounts to grow next look at peri-workout nutrition, which as i said w/your training experience, i think Surge Recovery will be of great benefit to you and keep you covered for that part of the day.
[/quote]

OP: you worry too much about supps. While I don’t particularly care for Wendler’s writing, I think someone like you could benefit a great deal from a healthy dose of his message.

#32

Haha I actually like most of Wendler’s stuff. I’ve been lifting for almost a year and a half now (not long at all) and I have stayed away from supps so far. Only thing I’ve taken is protein powder and a mass gainer (serious health reasons kept me from getting calories).

I’m not pretending I need the supplement, nor do I think it is absolutely necessary. I just want to get the most out of my training and I feel like proper peri workout nutrition would probably be the best place to start. I’m looking to get a supplement for the first time and I analyze the shit out of everything that goes into me. I also want to get the most for what little hard earned money I have haha.

But yes, if Wendler were here he would prlly slap me in the face and tell me to eat more, then prlly say something along the lines of majoring in the minors.

#33

You can do your own mix…

You male?

I like the idea of mixing up potassium citrate, magnesium citrate, zinc picolinate (Calcium otherwise), dextrose, leucine or amino blend, or carnivor, and citruline… Use your old grape flavored stuff if from Biotest to make a grape drank… Add creatine and caffeine to your desire.

Like surge workout fuel, but get rid of beta alanine and swap calcium for zinc since there is already virtually no calcium in this, and guys need zinc.

#34

I wouldn’t avoid sodium. (Of course, that may have been an inadvertent omission.)

There has been a lot of drum-beating treating sodium like the devil or a thing to be avoided, but used well, it is your friend, particularly when training hard.

From experience though, it is as Eazy said: all this winds up being a quite substantial pain in the ass. I couldn’t begin to figure how many times I’ve made custom mixes, but this was worthwhile for two reasons: first because much of this was pre-Anaconda, and second because this is in my line of work so the experience gained is potentially valuable. But in general, if valuing one’s time at all, making custom mixes isn’t a very good use of time. It can be fun though if liking that sort of thing; I’m just saying that there is no actual need and there is a time/money tradeoff even if managing to come up with an equally good workout drink, which won’t be the case if saving a really substantial amount of money.

It does always strike me as odd, except in the case where money really is very limited (only the actual necessities are being spent already plus a very small amount of discretionary money) where those who are very enthusiastic about training will readily spend $5 here, $10 there, $20 there on things they could easily drop and would scarcely miss, but are reluctant to put more than pennies or a couple of bucks into workout nutrition.

For example, enjoying wine, and routinely spending $5 - $10 more per bottle of wine compared to other wines which they actually do enjoy also, just not quite as much. People by the millions will spend $3 on a bottle of 5-hour Energy!! Maybe it is because paying for, typically, 12 or more servings at a time of workout products multiplies the price out?

#35

If looking for a better pump, why not arginine? I saw some people on here saying it sucks but it does give me a better pump so whatever… And it’s cheap.