T Nation

Making Money

I am hoping to have a 6-digit number of USD saved up by the end of this year. This was going to go towards decorating my flat (there’s nothing there now, bare-ass walls and building site leftovers everywhere), and a few other things. But with the way things are heading, it seems that if you have cash, and invest it, you can make a good chunk of money over a few years.

Now, I don’t mind staying in my parents’ house for a couple of years, and sleeping with girls in hotels or w/e if need be :slight_smile: Hell, I could rent a cheap-ass flat. But the thing is, I don’t know SQUAT about what to invest in. Property? Stocks? And how do I distinguish the good from the bad from the ugly?

I know financial theory, but NOTHING about how to actually trade succesfully. From previous threads in GAL, it seems like we have a few people who know what they’re doing… So, any advice/suggested reading? I’m also quite interested in the difficulties of an overseas national (Israeli/Russian citizenships) buying property in YOUR country. Of particular interest to me are Japan, USA, UK, EU, Australia.

So you want to buy property in Japan, USA, UK, EU, and/or OZ but will live in another country…that isn’t going to work especially starting off. How are you going to know what the market values are especially in the US since it changes so frequently? How are you going to find the deals? You going to rehab/flip, rent them out, wholesale, etc?

As far as trading goes you admit you basically know nothing. Is that 100k going to be money you have to have or can you afford to lose it all? When trading with scarce money you almost always fuck up because you’ll become emotional. Like anything else you have to research, make a plan, and stick to it.

If you want the closest thing to a guarantee in stock I’d tell you to buy Ford and as much of it as possible. It has been trading in the $2 range which isn’t even close to what it is worth.

But but but but what if it fails? Oh please…we are more than likely to get a Democrat as a president and even if McCain wins I see him following in Dem footsteps and bailing out companies. It isn’t like the US gov hasn’t bailed out Ford and Chrysler before. On top of that Ford’s European line of cars are making them a killing. They’re slowly starting to bring them to the US…they have long waiting lists for Focuses FFS.

But but but what if they don’t compete well with the other companies. First off they have been doing well and second off they don’t have to be number one. They only have to improve for the value of the stock to go up.

Furthermore, gas prices are starting to become stable and we’re going to get used to 2.50 to 3.00 dollar a gallon gas. People are going to get tired of driving every where in their little fuel savers, especially with kids, and want their old SUVs back.

So in a few years when the economy settles and starts to improve people will start over spending and buying all new shit again and cars are usually at the top of the list. Then again I could be full of shit and it’ll never see the $30-40 range that it should get up to…then again if you only put $1000 in at $2.50 and it only goes up to $10, which it should exceed by a large margin, you’ll make $3000 in about 4 years.

That’s my pick but you need to do your own research and I highly doubt your dreams of property being your wealth vehicle will work unless you move to that country.

[quote]G87 wrote:
I am hoping to have a 6-digit number of USD saved up by the end of this year. This was going to go towards decorating my flat (there’s nothing there now, bare-ass walls and building site leftovers everywhere), and a few other things. But with the way things are heading, it seems that if you have cash, and invest it, you can make a good chunk of money over a few years.

Now, I don’t mind staying in my parents’ house for a couple of years, and sleeping with girls in hotels or w/e if need be :slight_smile: Hell, I could rent a cheap-ass flat. But the thing is, I don’t know SQUAT about what to invest in. Property? Stocks? And how do I distinguish the good from the bad from the ugly?

I know financial theory, but NOTHING about how to actually trade succesfully. From previous threads in GAL, it seems like we have a few people who know what they’re doing… So, any advice/suggested reading? I’m also quite interested in the difficulties of an overseas national (Israeli/Russian citizenships) buying property in YOUR country. Of particular interest to me are Japan, USA, UK, EU, Australia. [/quote]

Good job saving 100 gerrr. I take it it’s ready to use and not tied up in 401k or IRA? I think if you don’t have experience in the market, you should definitely not put it there. Unless you put it in (here I go again) Hussman Strategic Growth Fund. Hussman will not lose your money and you still can get up to 15% growth in a year.

Mostly I’d recommend you keep doing what your doing to save so much and be conservative with it. You doing a great job. Probably in more a position to give advise than ask for it.

on edge - Thanks, man. I’m actually awful at saving money in everyday life. The only reason I’m not bankrupt is, I’ve been lucky enough to earn more than I spend, and then I got lucky with my work is all :slight_smile: Do you have any books on saving money on a day-to-day basis? It’s not really an issue at the moment, but hey, why not learn something new…

Ghorig - Appreciate you giving it to me straight. If all goes well, I might have up to 200 g, and I’d say I can afford to lose about 10%. Now that I think about it like that, making big investments at my level of experience is a less-than-perfect idea. On the other hand, if I invest 10g into something like what you suggested, I’d probably do pretty well over time.

As for the other topic, I was thinking of buying already-furnished property on the cheap and renting it out through a local agency, while waiting for prices to rise. I can make trips overseas to scout for property, but, as you realise yourself, I’d probably have to pick 1 location and stick with it…

Do you have any books, magazines, whatever - anything that I could read for more info? You sound like you know what you’re talking about.

[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
So you want to buy property in Japan, USA, UK, EU, and/or OZ but will live in another country…that isn’t going to work especially starting off. How are you going to know what the market values are especially in the US since it changes so frequently? How are you going to find the deals? You going to rehab/flip, rent them out, wholesale, etc?

As far as trading goes you admit you basically know nothing. Is that 100k going to be money you have to have or can you afford to lose it all? When trading with scarce money you almost always fuck up because you’ll become emotional. Like anything else you have to research, make a plan, and stick to it.

If you want the closest thing to a guarantee in stock I’d tell you to buy Ford and as much of it as possible. It has been trading in the $2 range which isn’t even close to what it is worth.

But but but but what if it fails? Oh please…we are more than likely to get a Democrat as a president and even if McCain wins I see him following in Dem footsteps and bailing out companies. It isn’t like the US gov hasn’t bailed out Ford and Chrysler before. On top of that Ford’s European line of cars are making them a killing. They’re slowly starting to bring them to the US…they have long waiting lists for Focuses FFS.

But but but what if they don’t compete well with the other companies. First off they have been doing well and second off they don’t have to be number one. They only have to improve for the value of the stock to go up.

Furthermore, gas prices are starting to become stable and we’re going to get used to 2.50 to 3.00 dollar a gallon gas. People are going to get tired of driving every where in their little fuel savers, especially with kids, and want their old SUVs back.

So in a few years when the economy settles and starts to improve people will start over spending and buying all new shit again and cars are usually at the top of the list. Then again I could be full of shit and it’ll never see the $30-40 range that it should get up to…then again if you only put $1000 in at $2.50 and it only goes up to $10, which it should exceed by a large margin, you’ll make $3000 in about 4 years.

That’s my pick but you need to do your own research and I highly doubt your dreams of property being your wealth vehicle will work unless you move to that country.[/quote]

Beefy, You know if Ford fails and Uncle Sam steps in and saves them, stock investors still lose.

To learn everything you could possibly need to know about real estate in the US go to www.reiclub.com It is completely free and the forums are amazing…the articles are pretty good as well. It covers everything about real estate but the average “successful” investors their either rent out or rehab/flip.

The guys that know their shit would be PropertyManager, FDJake, and RookieNYC. Other guys know their stuff but those are the main 3 I pay attention to.

PropertyManager is your main if you want to rent he has a blog and e-book that will not blow smoke up your ass. The other two mainly do flipping, commercial and stock. Start on this thread for some good info about the current economy http://www.reiclub.com/forums/index.php/topic,38549.0.html

Make sure to read and use the search function because they get snarky over the same dumb newb questions just like people here.

So if you get up to 200k, I’m assuming USD, you can afford to lose up to 10% or 20k? Well real estate in the US atm can lose 10% of its value real quick like. The key is to buy at a huge fucking discount and I don’t mean 30%.

People will always be like my house is worth this much blah blah blah. Well come to find out if you look at comps no house has sold in the neighborhood for that much in 6 months so don’t let those people bully you into a bad deal…this is your livelihood you got to go at it like it is fucking war…be respectful though =p.

If you aren’t embarrassed by your offer then it isn’t low enough. It is easier to make an offer than to ask them what they are asking for then make it.

If you just absolutely have your heart set on making money through property in the US this is what I’d do. I’d find a city that I’m interested aka A HUGE FUCKING MONEY MAKER EVEN IF IT IS IN ASSVILLE! I’d find the local REI club…you can find it on the directory of the website I gave you. Contact them then move to the area and live as cheaply as possible. I’d start off with bird dogging or wholesaling to make money with no risk to myself while I learn the process. Then I’d make some deals.

You need to decide how long you want to relocate here and if you can continue your current high paying job overseas or take a long vacation/hiatus. Lots of people will tell you to quit your job so you can focus on your business…guess what there is plenty time in the day to do both and good jobs aren’t easy to come by so I’d do what I can to keep that steady income.

You’re also going to have to figure out all the red tape for being a foreigner and setting up a business, I’d suggest an LLC, and/or trying to get citizenship.

This post is way too long so just make sure to read up and save save save save SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE!

I’ll post more links to good posts later.

[quote]This post is way too long so just make sure to read up and save save save save SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE!

[/quote]

JD Rockefeller said that the most important thing for a young man to do was to save his money. He had a few cents to rub together.

[quote]on edge wrote:

Beefy, You know if Ford fails and Uncle Sam steps in and saves them, stock investors still lose.[/quote]

They didn’t lose in the past and they won’t lose in the future. Look at what happened to Ford and Chrysler when the government came in and bailed them out. They didn’t take over and sell all the assets and say “Fuck You” to the stock holders. They just hand over a huge pile of money. There are several reasons why one of them being all of the employees Ford has and another would be all the people that have their retirements wrapped up in Ford stock and pension plans.

Is there a possibility they could go under? Yes! Likely? Nope. Just look at Ford’s leadership, quality reports, and sales outside of the US. This is a very different Ford than we are used to…FFS their quality is ranking as high if not higher than Honda and Toyota. In the US they haven’t been doing as well because we all want our big fucking vehicle while Ford has been concentrating on economical quality cars in Europe and Asia. The US is starting to slowly catch on because all of these dumb fucks that bought too much house and car can’t afford to pay the gas bill atm. They just made a 60 mpg diesel car for crying out loud.

[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
on edge wrote:

Beefy, You know if Ford fails and Uncle Sam steps in and saves them, stock investors still lose.

They didn’t lose in the past and they won’t lose in the future. Look at what happened to Ford and Chrysler when the government came in and bailed them out. They didn’t take over and sell all the assets and say “Fuck You” to the stock holders. They just hand over a huge pile of money. There are several reasons why one of them being all of the employees Ford has and another would be all the people that have their retirements wrapped up in Ford stock and pension plans.

Is there a possibility they could go under? Yes! Likely? Nope. Just look at Ford’s leadership, quality reports, and sales outside of the US. This is a very different Ford than we are used to…FFS their quality is ranking as high if not higher than Honda and Toyota. In the US they haven’t been doing as well because we all want our big fucking vehicle while Ford has been concentrating on economical quality cars in Europe and Asia. The US is starting to slowly catch on because all of these dumb fucks that bought too much house and car can’t afford to pay the gas bill atm. They just made a 60 mpg diesel car for crying out loud.[/quote]

Alright already. I’ll buy Ford tomorrow. There, are you satisfied? Geez.

BTW, nice real estate post above. I’m going to have to start reading what you have to say. Hey, do you think you could stop swearing so much?

[quote]on edge wrote:
Alright already. I’ll buy Ford tomorrow. There, are you satisfied? Geez.

BTW, nice real estate post above. I’m going to have to start reading what you have to say. [/quote]

I’m glad you are reading what I have to say but don’t just rush into investments. For all you know I could be some douche bag Guru trying to sell more investment courses that has no real experience.

As far as real experience goes I have a little bit with stock an only theoretical knowledge with Real Estate(Give me a break I’m finishing up college). However, I’ve been reading up on both for years by people that walk the walk and are blunt and to the point. I’m also pretty good at weeding out who knows their stuff and who doesn’t but even I catch myself leaning towards some BS hype and have to snap out of it.

The reason I harp on Ford so much is because it is such a good price and it has already taken the beating and is waiting for the rest of the market to catch up.

I’ve got another good stock pick I’ve read about today, BTW this one along with FORD weren’t originally thought up by me, Cooper Tires. Not only does Cooper tires have a damn fine name, I’m biased cause it is my last name big whoop you wanna fight about it, but they put out a good product.

The reasoning behind Cooper Tires is that the main ingredients have gone down in price quite a bit so now when they are selling their tires it will be at a profit. When commodities were sky high they took an ass beating. Now commodities are back down and we have a recession. People will always need tires and since more and more of us are keeping the cars we have were gonna have to change them some time instead of buying a new car. When you have to choose between Cooper at $75 or another name brand at $150 and you don’t have much disposable income it isn’t hard to see the writing on the wall.

I still think Ford is a better deal but this would definitely help a bit with diversification and the reasoning behind this choice is sound. It’s a little late now but a good way to gauge the economy is to look in the paper for used RVs, boats, motorcycles, and other big boy toys. When the economy is good people want to buy new so their will be less used stuff for sale and it will more than likely be on the older side. Note: Now in the beginning of a good economy there may be a lot of used stuff for sale because everyone has money and wants to upgrade. On the opposite end when the economy slows down people will be buying used if they are buying at all. More than likely everyone will be selling their used toys and they won’t be too old either.

Little things like carpooling, used section in papers, increase in bikers and the new/used car industry can help you get a pretty good grasp on whats going on in your area.

Fuck that! It seems as the years go by I swear more…actually I think I just do it more when it is stuff I’m excited/interested about. Finance has for the most part been fairly easy for me to grasp and I’m interested in it…this probably puts me leaps and bounds above the average shmuck.

Next post will contain links to good posts on the REI forum. Their search function works well but I’ll attach some of my favorites.

I think I’ve already linked to this thread but oh well. FDJake is the guy has really helped me shape a contrarian investing pattern in my brain and start applying it to the economy/stocks. The guy really knows his stuff about investing.

http://www.reiclub.com/forums/index.php/topic,38549.135.html

This link is to PropertyManager’s website/blog. If you want to rent out homes this will open your eyes to the truth especially towards lower income renting. I don’t have his e-book but it is supposed to be really good.

http://www.1minutetorentalpropertyriches.com/id53.html

Example of how to make residence you are selling to stand out.

http://www.reiclub.com/forums/index.php/topic,37968.0.html

Discusses special needs and old folk home housing

http://www.reiclub.com/forums/index.php/topic,24289.0.html

More stuff on the economy.

http://www.reiclub.com/forums/index.php/topic,38800.0.html

Buying, selling, renting, lease to own of Mobile homes. Free podcast to listen to. This guy has made so much money off mobile homes it is crazy. Also a good Real Estate plan to go after if you don’t have very much money.

http://www.lonniescruggs.net/articles.html#tip

Thinking outside the box.

http://www.reiclub.com/forums/index.php/topic,38875.0.html

Honestly, just consider the whole site stickied. Find out what you want to do and who the top guys on the site for it are and search for their posts. You’ll learn more from that sight then any 100 books you could read about Real Estate Investing and their are some damn good books.

I’m going to be spending most of my Birthday/Christmas money on Ford so come January hopefully I’ll at least have a couple hundred shares. Then again I may need to spend it on V-Diet after the Holidays…nah I’ll just say I’m a really weak powerlifter.

Thanks, appreciate the links! Exactly what I needed. Any literature tips, anyone?

There are 3 ways to make money.

Real Estate.

Stocks.

Start a Business.

Right now, real estate and stocks are where its at.

[quote]Hadow Khan wrote:
Right now, real estate and stocks are where its at.[/quote]

What stocks did you invest in?

[quote]Hadow Khan wrote:
Right now, real estate and stocks are where its at.[/quote]

I’m gonna nitpick you a lil bit here. While I believe Real Estate and Stocks are a terrific money/wealth builder I’d like to talk about business. No matter what you are doing to make wealth/money you need to treat it like a business. That means planning, following through and organization. Now with stock you don’t need to form a Corp or LLC, etc. However, writing up a simple business plan would definitely be a good idea.

An example would be: I plan to make a profit by investing in aggressive growth sectors for shorter term profits. For long term I plan to invest in well established companies that have steady growth and pay $1 per year in dividends for each share, etc. Another would be any stock that shows a drop of 15% in a week deserves to be reevaluated to sell and stop the pain, buy more at a discount, or realize that the entire market is down. This will help you from fucking up do to emotions and this can be applied to any type of business.

I’ve got another stock tip for you guys today. Airlines, especially DAL (Delta Airlines), would be a good buy. Commodities and gas are back down and several of these companies are poised to make a good chunk of money. Besides the airlines, just like Ford/car companies, have a history of being bailed out by the gov because how else are you going to get 1/2 way across the world in a day? Also, DAL is merging with NWA should be done by next month.

Stock trading, especially for a living, is very stressful so make sure you aren’t play with scared money and step away from the computer/tv and go outside for a walk on a regular basis.

[quote]Hadow Khan wrote:
There are 3 ways to make money.

Real Estate.

Stocks.

Start a Business.

Right now, real estate and stocks are where its at.[/quote]

I’ll add a 4th that works for me. Get good at Texas Hold’em