T Nation

Making a Change in my HRT...Possibly Coming Off?


#1

I've been on Test Cyp TRT now for about 3 months. I initially had a good size weight gain of water retention (11-12 lbs), and increasing since was my blood pressure. Face red most days, bloating...etc.

Talked to the doc today, and he said I could switch to a cream, or come off the Cyp and go on HCG which he prescribed. I asked him how long on the HCG, and he said "As long as you want to feel good.."

My questions is, in everyone's experience what would be a good next step? Staying on HCG and going w/the cream in a month or two (which he's ok with)?

I hoping the retention subsides soon. Also any ideas of how long it takes to clear it out of the system?

Thanks!


#2

I should also note that I've been on Adex for a few weeks now ( 6 drops EOD), and my doc said today it was at 25, down from 54. Does Adex work this quick, and if so, perhaps the water retention just hasn't left yet? In things I'm reading HCG can actually cause MORE?

Thanks for any help guys.


#3

1) Estrogen will cause water retention in both men and women, but you knew that.

2) Adex does work quickly to lower circulating E2 levels, but the receptors have to clear out too. Even though your b/w says 25, your receptors are still E2 logged, and probably will be for anywhere from three weeks to two months. The reason I say that is; many of us men have gotten our E2 down according to our b/w, yet we don't start "feeling better" for weeks or even months.
As far as HCG goes, yes it can increase E2 production, but it also increases T levels too if your testes are still working, just as if your body was producing it's own LH and FSH.


#4

I switched from T cyp to HCG and T gel a couple of months ago and I'm really happy with it. I use 600iu of HCG every three days and 75mg of 5% gel. It's been working great and I feel much better on more HCG.


#5

KNB and Brent,

Thanks for the responses. I'm glad to hear that it takes a while for the E to subside, despite the B/W readings. I have in fact been pissing like crazy the past two days, and feeling tighter in my muscles. I'm guessing I was way overboard on E2 even before I began the shots of Cyp.

Got the HCG today, quick question:

Doc had on there that I take 500 IU per DAY s/c. Does this seem high considering Brent's protocol is for 600 ui every 3 days?? I read that Dr. Crisler recommends 100 iu per day to start.

Also, where are you guys shooting HCG subcutaneously? In the gut...leg...ass?

Thanks again!


#6

hCG: Research showed that low dose 250iu SC EOD replaced testicular functioning [ITT]in men who were HPTA repressed with T injections.

500iu per day is nuts and may lead to LH receptor insensitivity. 500iu EOD will work better, with greatly diminishing returns. The idea is to preserve the testes, not force them into making T, your injections do that.

EOD works well with the hCG half-life.

High amounts of hCG will turn your testes into estrogen factories that adex cannot really control properly.

Sc inject into belly fat above the navel. Lower can find more veins with bleeds and bruising.

Do not jet water into the hCG. Swirl gently and never shake. Draw up and inject slowly to avoid shear damage to the peptide.

Front load with 1000iu.


#7

Thank you very much KSMan!

I'm guessing I mix all the water with the HCG to start. Do I need to refridge after that? My Doc is clueless (although at least I can get what I want) and the pharmacy is even worse.

Thanks again, starting tomorrow. I may go with Test Cream as well, although since my water has come down (presumably due to Adex finally kicking in, I may stay with the shots)...any thoughts?


#8

Read the package insert. Yes, must be refrigerated.

Shots: How often are you injecting? If once a week, inject more often and that can reduce T spikes and the E problems that follow. You can inject twice a week, or every 3 or 2 days [E2D=EOD, E3D]. With steady D levels, you can get an adex dose that matches a steady amount of T.

EOD T, hCG and adex all work well if the routine is something that you can live with.

Your recent labs were between injections or?

7 drops of adex should take you to E2=21-22pg/ml.

You have test cream now? If you switch to transdermals, it will be a while before you know what your T levels are and make adjustments. Meanwhile the cream may create disproportionately more E. You will then not know what your E2 is and may be off target with adex.

When you add hCG, your T will go up a bit and E may increase as well. More moving targets for adex. Not that these things can't be managed, just things to be aware of.


#9

I inject 250iu HCG EOD into my belly fat pinched VERY lightly to make a fold. KSman is right again, HCG produces E2 in the testes, so monitoring E2 levels after starting HCG is very important. I know HCG has definitely raised my E2 levels directly, or through the aromitase enzyme action. Either way, I have to keep an eye on my E2. I am currently working on a self adjusted protocol of HCG dosage. My doctor is on board with my adjusting my HCG dosages when needed and requesting b/w to be done for me, so I can continue to feel much younger than my current years... I had b/w done last week using a 3mg's/week of adex for four weeks. Something wasn't right, and the lab screwed up my prior E2 test, so i'm really back at square one until I get my results back later this week. If there is anything remarkable, i'll post it.


#10

Well I'm off Test Cyp well over a week now, some bloat has gone away. Front loaded w/1000 iu HCG in the belly,did 250IU yesterday and will continue EOD.....but for how long?

Also up to 7 drops EOD of Adex. Mood seems slightly better, but dropping the bloat and feeling leaner definitely contributed. Can get wood, but not anything to write home about.

Considering I'm off Cyp now, should I go for the test cream and continue with HCG and Adex? I'm guessing remaining on HCG alone w/Adex isn't a good idea. I'm learning my doc really isn't at all up to speed on any of this.

Thanks guys


#11

As T levels drop, you need less adex; otherwise too much.

I do not understand why you are not injecting T and using adex and hCG. Do serum E2 labs and dose adex to get E2=22pg/ml.