Mak Searches for God...

Well I am not a huge fan of Eastern Philosophy. My problem is one of method not of what it says. The reason is that Eastern philosophy states a conclusion and expects you to figure out if it?s true and why. While that process is well and good, I don?t have time for that shit. I want to know the conclusion and how it was concluded and therefore I can move forward. Eastern philosophy is really slow, because you have to figure out if something is true and then move on. Western philosophy presents an argument, eastern presents a conclusion.

Beyond that, your quest is a noble one. Seeking that which lies beyond is a worthy process for a goal you will likely never achieve, but you will learn a lot in the process. That is what Buddhism gives you. You learn a lot from the process. But Western philosophy can get your further, faster.

What we know is this, there is very little that can be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. Really simple math is the most solid form of philosophical thought there is?The conclusions will be and are always the same no matter where you are, how your see it, what parallel universe you may be in, 2+2 will always equal 4.
Since you can prove little beyond the shadow of a doubt you live your day to day life on the faith that today is similar to yesterday in that the way things were yesterday will be the same today.
Science shows correlation and implies causation, but that cannot be proven empirically, no matter how hard you try.
The objects of metaphysics are real and are a direct interaction with the physical. For instance, you can conjure an image of the a chair in your mind, and you could build that exact chair, but the chair will never be the image of the chair?It may look the same, but you cannot sit in your image. The image and the object are different. We know love exists, or at least we think it does, but we cannot prove it in any way, etc?.
I could go on, and on, and on…I love this shit.

I have to disagree that 2+2 always = 4.

For example, If you add 1 Mechanical Lion with another mechanical lion, with another mechanical lion with a fourth mechanical lion, you do not get 4 mechanical lions, you get 1 Voltron.

V

[quote]pat wrote:
Well I am not a huge fan of Eastern Philosophy. My problem is one of method not of what it says. The reason is that Eastern philosophy states a conclusion and expects you to figure out if it?s true and why. While that process is well and good, I don?t have time for that shit. I want to know the conclusion and how it was concluded and therefore I can move forward. Eastern philosophy is really slow, because you have to figure out if something is true and then move on. Western philosophy presents an argument, eastern presents a conclusion.[/quote]

…this is great. Eastern philosphy forces you to think, to face your fears and doubts, to struggle and persevere. What you’ve attained is of your own doing, it is your realisation of truth and not anyone elses. This peace of mind is untouchable, still and formless. That you don’t see the similarities between this and bodybuilding is beyond me…

[quote]ephrem wrote:
pat wrote:
Well I am not a huge fan of Eastern Philosophy. My problem is one of method not of what it says. The reason is that Eastern philosophy states a conclusion and expects you to figure out if it?s true and why. While that process is well and good, I don?t have time for that shit. I want to know the conclusion and how it was concluded and therefore I can move forward. Eastern philosophy is really slow, because you have to figure out if something is true and then move on. Western philosophy presents an argument, eastern presents a conclusion.

…this is great. Eastern philosphy forces you to think, to face your fears and doubts, to struggle and persevere. What you’ve attained is of your own doing, it is your realisation of truth and not anyone elses. This peace of mind is untouchable, still and formless. That you don’t see the similarities between this and bodybuilding is beyond me…

[/quote]

Why should it surprise you, He can’t even add mechanical lions.

V

[quote]Vegita wrote:
ephrem wrote:
pat wrote:
Well I am not a huge fan of Eastern Philosophy. My problem is one of method not of what it says. The reason is that Eastern philosophy states a conclusion and expects you to figure out if it?s true and why. While that process is well and good, I don?t have time for that shit. I want to know the conclusion and how it was concluded and therefore I can move forward. Eastern philosophy is really slow, because you have to figure out if something is true and then move on. Western philosophy presents an argument, eastern presents a conclusion.

…this is great. Eastern philosphy forces you to think, to face your fears and doubts, to struggle and persevere. What you’ve attained is of your own doing, it is your realisation of truth and not anyone elses. This peace of mind is untouchable, still and formless. That you don’t see the similarities between this and bodybuilding is beyond me…

Why should it surprise you, He can’t even add mechanical lions.

V[/quote]

neither can you - there were 5 lions . . .

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Vegita wrote:
ephrem wrote:
pat wrote:
Well I am not a huge fan of Eastern Philosophy. My problem is one of method not of what it says. The reason is that Eastern philosophy states a conclusion and expects you to figure out if it?s true and why. While that process is well and good, I don?t have time for that shit. I want to know the conclusion and how it was concluded and therefore I can move forward. Eastern philosophy is really slow, because you have to figure out if something is true and then move on. Western philosophy presents an argument, eastern presents a conclusion.

…this is great. Eastern philosphy forces you to think, to face your fears and doubts, to struggle and persevere. What you’ve attained is of your own doing, it is your realisation of truth and not anyone elses. This peace of mind is untouchable, still and formless. That you don’t see the similarities between this and bodybuilding is beyond me…

Why should it surprise you, He can’t even add mechanical lions.

V

neither can you - there were 5 lions . . . [/quote]

Haha Nice catch, Thats what you get when you try to post quick sarcastic one liners in between working!!!

V

I don’t know much about Buddhism, but I like the idea of natural law as summarized by Mak with one caveat. If you look solely at cause and effect, you risk justifying any action as long as the ultimate outcome is desirable. I don’t personally believe that the end always justifies the means, so I can’t say I buy into a pure cause > effect model.

Instead, I prefer to operate by core values. If an action is consistent with those values, I label it “good”.

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
I never did what the good book told me or went to church. [/quote]

That might be part of the problem.

One problem that people have regarding Christianity is that they have certain expectations which are based upon one or more false premise. First of all, the real God is not the God of TV and movies.

The best way to understand God is to read (and study) the Christian Bible beginning to end. It’s amazing how many people criticize Christianity without ever having understood it to begin with.

Good luck with your search Mak

A muslim can just as correctly argue that the best way to understand God is to read (and study) the Quran from beginning to end. It’s amazing how many people criticize the Muslim faith without ever having understood it to begin with.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
I never did what the good book told me or went to church.

That might be part of the problem.[/quote]

WTF!!! Where did you cme from? Haven’t seen you post in a while.

V

[quote]ZEB wrote:
One problem that people have regarding Christianity is that they have certain expectations which are based upon one or more false premise. First of all, the real God is not the God of TV and movies.

The best way to understand God is to read (and study) the Christian Bible beginning to end. It’s amazing how many people criticize Christianity without ever having understood it to begin with.

Good luck with your search Mak
[/quote]

Other than the passion by good old mel. That one was actual original footage. ;0)

I’ve personally become fascinated by deism recently. I became interested in it when reading about the founding fathers several of whom were deists/Unitarians.

The belief at it?s core holds that reason is the path to discover god, not revelation. This is what separates it from most religions. The Jeffersonian bible is a pretty interesting example, though probably more Unitarian in nature, of the rejection of divine revelation and miracles.

It?s at least something for you to look into, though there isn?t much of a modern movement left. It’s kinda hard to have a cohesive movement without the unifying dogmatic revelation of most religions.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
One problem that people have regarding Christianity is that they have certain expectations which are based upon one or more false premise. First of all, the real God is not the God of TV and movies.

The best way to understand God is to read (and study) the Christian Bible beginning to end. It’s amazing how many people criticize Christianity without ever having understood it to begin with.

Good luck with your search Mak
[/quote]

This is the best way to understand the Christian god. True.

The Bible is one of the primary reasons why I detest Christianity and religion in general (as is the Qu’ran). It is also far, far easier to criticise Christianity when you’ve read the Bible. It practically writes all your material for you.

[quote]Jab1 wrote:
It is also far, far easier to criticise Christianity when you’ve read the Bible. It practically writes all your material for you.[/quote]

Especially the old testament, but Christians have an escape clause for that one.

[quote]Jab1 wrote:

This is the best way to understand the Christian god. True.

The Bible is one of the primary reasons why I detest Christianity and religion in general (as is the Qu’ran). It is also far, far easier to criticise Christianity when you’ve read the Bible. It practically writes all your material for you.[/quote]

OH reaaallly. Care to take me on? I’ll be your huckleberry . . . .

[quote]forlife wrote:
Jab1 wrote:
It is also far, far easier to criticise Christianity when you’ve read the Bible. It practically writes all your material for you.

Especially the old testament, but Christians have an escape clause for that one.[/quote]

Same challenge - bring it :slight_smile:

[quote]Jab1 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Honestly, here’s what I’d suggest for you. Determine whichever ones allow for rather hedonistic behavior. Write the names of the religions down on some scraps of paper and place them in a hat. Close your eyes and draw one of the slips of paper out. Read off your new religion.

I found a perfect one, the god who is this undead zombie guy or whatever he is suggests to “take no thought for the morrow”. Awesome, I’ll do whatever I want because he’s going to come and save me. So I don’t need to save money, or get an education or plant crops, I’ll just do whatever I want right now![/quote]

A zombie is a soulless, reanimated, putrid, automaton with only one desire…eating your brain like a ripe watermelon on a hot SW Florida day.! Obviously, this is totally different from the resurrected Christ! Now what?

Well, I don’t do any of what you mentioned above and God provided me a new pick up with rear window gun rack already mounted, got me through the 8th grade (but still managed to get me into an ivy leaque school with all expenses paid, just because he can), and just this morning a whole crop of butternut squash appeared on my property. Life is good.

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Same challenge - bring it :)[/quote]

Don’t you agree that the god of the old testament is jealous, petty, vindictive, capricious, and cruel? He gets a much needed facelift in the new testament, thank…god.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Jab1 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Honestly, here’s what I’d suggest for you. Determine whichever ones allow for rather hedonistic behavior. Write the names of the religions down on some scraps of paper and place them in a hat. Close your eyes and draw one of the slips of paper out. Read off your new religion.

I found a perfect one, the god who is this undead zombie guy or whatever he is suggests to “take no thought for the morrow”. Awesome, I’ll do whatever I want because he’s going to come and save me. So I don’t need to save money, or get an education or plant crops, I’ll just do whatever I want right now!

A zombie is a soulless, reanimated, putrid, automaton with only one desire…eating your brain like a ripe watermelon on a hot SW Florida day.! Obviously, this is totally different from the resurrected Christ! Now what?

Well, I don’t do any of what you mentioned above and God provided me a new pick up with rear window gun rack already mounted, got me through the 8th grade (but still managed to get me into an ivy leaque school with all expenses paid, just because he can), and just this morning a whole crop of butternut squash appeared on my property. Life is good.[/quote]

Ah how nice of him. He provided one of my best friends with an abusive father and terminal cancer at 16.

God provides me with nothing.

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Jab1 wrote:

This is the best way to understand the Christian god. True.

The Bible is one of the primary reasons why I detest Christianity and religion in general (as is the Qu’ran). It is also far, far easier to criticise Christianity when you’ve read the Bible. It practically writes all your material for you.

OH reaaallly. Care to take me on? I’ll be your huckleberry . . . .[/quote]

Is it fair that finite crimes (sins) get punished with infinite torment? Is Jesus moral for telling us about this?

I deny the existence of the holy spirit. But I am a good person and live a good life, is it fair that I am damned to eternal torment?