T Nation

Majority of Isrealis Support Hamas Peace Talks


#1

Given this John Wayne tough-guy political posturing and rhetoric spilling out of the mouths of so many of our politicians and the way this nonsense is being echoed by posters on this site, I am starting a thread on this poll:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/958473.html

Additionally, although this article does not report it, a majority of Jewish Americans support peace talks.

Where has this "no talking" policy gotten us? How long does it take to admit that this policy isn't working? Under what conditions would you admit you were wrong?

If you do not have an answer for this question, it seems that perhaps this policy is not based on real world evidence, but on an emotional desire that has nothing to do with what works and what doesn't.


#2

Ironically, American Jews are liberals in majority, with clear records of affiliation with the Democratic party. Arab Americans, on the other hand, traditionally tend to vote for Republicans.


#3

Haha, the title gets cut off (on my computer at least) on the forum screen as "Majority of Israelis Support Hamas". You may wish to reword.

Beyond that, I thought this was a well known thing... everyone wants peace talks except assholes. The fact that no one wnats to GIVE UP anything makes those peace talks ultimately pointless.


#4

How do you know if you don't try?

I mean, sure, Palestinians are now voting for Hamas, but if their situation improves, chances are that Hamas would get a swift kick in the nuts.

The status quo is LARGELY in favor of Israel. Talking with Hamas can only be beneficial. And in case nothing's achieved, Hamas would be decredibilized and out the door anyway just like what happened to the PLO.

The only thing that's pointless is cringing to one's position and refusing to see things from the other side's perspective (which both sides are clearly guilty of). You don't have a crystal ball.


#5

So what? They only want talks because they think they might work and they do not consider the drawbacks. The majority of people want a mythical free lunch.


#6

Thank God for the one protecting them from themselves, ey?


#7

Isn't that why they elected their government? So they wouldn't have mob rule?


#8

They've had numerous "talks" with the "Palestinians" over the years, resulting in land and territory concessions, monetary aid to the Palestinians, prisoner (suicide bomber) exchanges, and other items that benefit the jihad against Israel. If the Israelis can't get it through their thick skulls that creating yet another hudna with a people known for breaking their word is not in their interests, perhaps they deserve to lose.


#9

So far, I haven't seen neither negotiations nor punitive measures to work. Beowulf is right, nothing works since no one wnats to give up anything.


#10

Good point. But negotiations should be encouraged nonetheless. There is an international concensus on the issue and if only both sides were FORCED to sit down and talk, there could be some serious breakthroughs. Worst case scenario, they stop killing each other for a while.

I don't have a shred of respect for the Arab League, but the proposition they keep pushing is backed by the overwhelming majority of the world - and a weak majority in both Israel and the Occupied Territories. What is needed now, is that Tel Aviv keeps isolating Hamas in favour of Abbas' illegitimate government, and for Hamas to drop the "we're doing the will of God" crap.


#11

Yes, I agree about the necessity of negotiations. In general, I can see no point in the idea to not to negotiate.


#12


Offtopic:

Should it be: I have seen neither... or I haven't seen neither..? Is that a double negation?


#13

Yep.

It ain't no doubt about it :wink:


#14

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#15

And for the idiots that still don't get it,

Hamas Condemns the Holocaust


#16

But not their own genocidal actions.

Odd.


#17

From the article:

"A recent front page article in the International Herald Tribune followed this line, as did an article for Cif about an item broadcast on the al-Aqsa satellite TV channnel about the Nazi Holocaust.

In fact, the al-Aqsa Channel is an independent media institution that often does not express the views of the Palestinian government headed by Ismail Haniyeh or of the Hamas movement."

Thus, the show about the Holocaust may or may not be the official view of the Hamas Government.

And although Bassem Naeem (the article's author) says he condemns the Holocaust, he also belongs to a government who committed terrorist acts of genocide against the Jewish people.


#18

Show me a government which does not condemn the Holocaust.


#19

they condemn the Holocaust, but that just means they're like every other Nazi. Neo-Nazis believed it happened, they just think it was on a much smaller scale than 6 million Jews.


#20

The Hamas charter calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. The Hamas leadership says it's a religious duty to destroy Israel. To not do it is to go against god. Religion is nonnegotiable.

When they took this to the level of religious belief Hamas created a situation where talking is pointless. For a lot of Hamas members you are not going to change their religious beliefs. This is some old school tribal warfare, where one group will have to wipe out the other to survive. Talking isn't going to work.