T Nation

Maintaining High Testosterone Levels After Stopping Clomid?

I’m 35 years old. Can someone give a little help here, please? Well, I had been using clomid for 3-4 years and was happy, my T levels were always around 1000-1100ng/dL. The problem is I cannot tolerate anymore those visual symptoms this crap medication causes to me. There too many risks and they are dangerous. I’m done with that crap.

I’ve a pituitary microadenoma (yes, I did A MRI) and the doctors never ever told me it’s a contraindication (I’ve read the leaflet), so it’s very dangerous. I read algo that HCG is contraindicated if you’ve adenomas as well (but there are no ocular side effects, go figure it out?!)

Is TRT the only way to maintain my T levels that high? those MOFOs does not like to prescribe T here in Brazil and Clomid was over the counter. I don’t want to take something that was helping me on one hand and causing trouble on the other hand. Injecting T I would imagine the scenario: 200mg every 4 weeks, which will cause a roller coaster. I need steady hormones.

I read anywhere some people get gel (not androgel) at a higher concentration,use it on a daily basis and maintain 900ng/dL without any issues. My anterior levels were around 450, 500ish and had low libido, but when I got 1100 my libido was CRAZY HIGH on clomid.

Why would you do this instead of 75-100mg a week, injected two or three times a wk? :slight_smile:

What was your daily Clomid dose out of interest? How long were you taking Clomid before you got ocular side effects?

Options: enclomiphene, which is Clomid minus the side effects (for most people); tamoxifen; trt

Choose the one that appeals to you the most. Keep in mind that those vision issues will likely be permanent the longer you use clomid. You’re probably already going to have some long term effects if they’ve been an issue for years, just FYI. You’re supposed to stop taking it as soon as those side effects show up. How long has this been an issue?

Hey, man! Thanks for answering…it’s been around 34 days that I dropped clomid and my vision sometimes get better, depends which light is turned on and the angle I’m looking. daylight I feel there is something cloudy on the corner of the eyes, if you know I a mean. Regarding your question, it bothered my all the time, because I was on it…I was tooking it, tried to adapt myself on the medication no matter what, just thinking it was safe, even with those nasty effects .I just STOPPED nowdays… I know, I know, It was a very naive thing to do. Now I just stopped using it 30-34 days ago, so…I’m hoping to get better!

Another times, when watching a movie laying down on the dark, the movie images get “longer than normal” like if there brighter lights .Sorry, it’s very difficult to explain it.

oh, man…please don’t say it’s permanent, I already have so many problems in my life (more than you could imagine) that it would kill the rest of me. I’m getting all anxious about that “permanent” word. I’m dealing with symptoms (like I have hypogonadism but I never had in the classical term) and trying just to get better, you know? If my vision gets clearer sometimes, so something must be going on here…any thoughts? The thing is, I know clomid is a poison if you have a pituitary adenoma, but how would I know I had? they (doctors) don’t care about us patients.

well, the ophthalmologist said I should wait like 6 months to observe changes. There was something wrong with my tests (for sure) but she said it could get better as long as I stop it.

funny thing when I was 27-28 yo my T levels were around 700-800ng/dL without any issues. Never heard about this clomid, HCG or that shit (sorry my language, I’m desperated). Thank you.

I’ve never took clomid 50mg all year around, sometimes I just stopped, took a little less…if that helps.

Trt is probably your answer then. SERM monotherapy is somewhat common, but honestly it’s not nearly as safe as using a bio identical hormone that has been in your body your entire life.

As for the vision issues and recovery, you’ll have to wait and see. There are a lot of stories about that side effect lingering for a very long time and not improving. It’s not a guarantee, and in fact it can be rare for that side effect to be fully permanent, but it’s also rare to even get said side effect. So for whatever reason you were susceptible to that particular issue. Clomid has a long half-life, so by day 34 you’re probably just fully clearing the drug. I agree with your ophthalmologist, give it six months.

The thing that bothers me is that HCG is contraindicated for people with pituitary tumors like mine. I mean, that is not listed as an adverse side effect, just a contraindication. Well, gel does not bother me at all, I’m all for it…just don’t want pea size testicles, that’s way I mentioned the possibility of HCG injections, in a way to preserve my testicular volume.

In your opinion to maintain, let’s say, 900, 1000ng/dL of testosterone rubbing a gel (I had 800ng/dL of total testosterone in my twenties and later on clomid, I got even higher and feeling super fine) should the concentration be higher than 15% or it’s insane? Sorry for my questions, I’m trying to feel better…don’t like to feel this way now that I’m off “Clomi-venom” diabolique stuff. Thank you.

I’m very anti gel, so I’m not the right guy to ask about that.

You can use low dose tamoxifen to maintain your testicular size. Or kisspeptin is a newer option (no idea if it’s safe for your particular condition, you’ll have to investigate that).

As with any treatment you can try it and see if it works for you. I suspect that most guys that use standard trt treatments do just fine, they rub on the gel every day or take a shot once every 2 weeks and don’t give it a second thought. They just go live their lives. Online forums are where you tend to find outliers, people that the standard doesn’t seem to work for them for one reason or another.

You’re just going to have to pick something and try it and see how it goes. Your best bet, if you can, is pick a treatment, follow the protocol what ever it is, and then forget about it. Just go live your life. Guys that hyperfocus on how they feel moment to moment tend to be ones that struggle more. I’m not saying don’t pay attention at all, or that it’ll be easy, I that that’s the best route. Also having it in your mind from the beginning that whatever you pick WILL get you feeling better rather than “this shit won’t work” will help. A positive attitude can be very helpful, though admittedly that positivity can be difficult to find and maintain sometimes.

Good luck.

Why not run Caber first/concurrently with TRT?

Man, I get you…But SERMS give me the creeps, I’m scared. The issue to get my hands on test cyp is because of the docs control it. Since the 90s, ANVISA (our FDA, you may say) has determined it can only be buy as long as you have a prescription. Clomid, here in BR, is OTC.

I’ve heard somewhere about this kisspeptin, where can I get it? And may I ask you why you are anti gel? I don’t like androgel, but I meant a goodgel, with higher rate of absorption…Well, I am not stubborn (I’d never try clomid again, I swear) nor do I want to become a bodybuilder, just want to keep my T levels at a very good range and that’s all.

Thanks again…I got interested in this kisspepetin you’ve said.

Yeah, at least dostinex is over the counter here in Brazil, good that you recalled this one. Even HCG is OTC, but in the package leaflet they say you should not inject it if you have a pituitary tumor. I mean, I don’t know anymore, man…just want to get better. I do know HCG tends to shutdown LH and FSH, so…that sucks.

yeah, i know what you mean…but when i was taking clomid, i had constant control over my testosterone levels, which i wouldn’t have with testosterone cypionate. with gel it seems easier to keep my testosterone at 900ng/dL, but it must be more expensive for sure. I just don’t wanna be a doctor’s puppy anymore…The only this that ended my symptoms was clomid or test cyp, mas the latter I had to beg doctors…so you imagine how difficult is to put my hands on these injections.

Do you know what percentage of that T gel I should ask the pharmacy when I call them? I don’t want to trade my T range to the same range, so…is there any estimate to put me in a higher range?

P.S.: if there is anything wrong gramatically that I’m writing, I’d be glad if you correct me…don’t want to “sound” like a dumbass.

I don’t know what to ask for as far as gels & concentrations. With compounded creams 20% or 200mg/ml and you apply typically .5 to 1 ml of cream daily often in a divided dose. seems to be common for men, but how that translates to gels I don’t know. I’d probably get the highest concentration I could and adjust how much is applied, but no clue if that would work well or not.

PS. I think your writing is fine.

Thank you for your reply and for the compliment. Well, since I’m not a native speaker, I don’t want to scare people away if my english isn’t as good as it should be.

Yeah, it seems like the only two options that I have left are HCG (but I don’t know about it, since is contraindicated if you have the pituitary tumor that I have - that’s why I think clomid caused be those nasty visual effects) or TRT.

I’ve heard about people using 1mg of anastrozole per week, but to be honest…crashing E2 levels in order to increase LH pulse and eventually increasing testosterone, seems pointless. Is there any chance to improve symptoms decreasing E2 levels? I don’t think so. This 3rd option by far looks stupidity.