T Nation


Tim Patterson and I were discussing the reasons why people taking
steroids (or potentially MAG-10) can fail to gain muscle during a
cycle. We came up with several possibilities, but there’s one thing
in particular that’s the number-one cause.

We’re concerned that maybe not all T-mag
readers will know, and if so wouldn’t get the most out of MAG-10; but even more so that
the general public, guys who just haven’t happened to really look into the matter, may buy MAG-10
and not get the most out of it because of lacking key knowledge.

And I mean really severely compromising gains, like cutting them in half or worse.

What do you think that number one thing is?
And do you think that the average user would
be likely to fall short on it unless we somehow get the information to him?


Training volume?

increased protein intake, increased overall caloric intake, increased volume/intensity per workout, extra sleep. importance in that order.


The average person already has a decent workout routine (maybe not the best, but their routine won’t be the limiting factor, at any rate) and gets adequate rest. Diet is going to be the main issue for most people. You should print on the bottle something like, ‘Increase calories to 5,000 a day, making sure to eat at least 400 grams of protein.’ Or something else that takes into consideration weight and activity level (a 3x3 table, perhaps).

Bill, I think that the absence of a good consistent diet would be a big limiting factor to Mag-10s effectiveness. As well as rest, lifting cycle, etc. There are so many factors that can limit ones progress. But that goes for every traing program, whether on a steroidal substance or not! The bottom line is you can lead a horse to a bottle of AP, but you can’t make him turn on the blender. And you sure as hell can’t force him to come back to the bender in three hours. Bill, as always there are those people out there looking for the magic muscle pill that only train and eat in a half ass fashion. And these people will have minimal gain with any supplement they try. Only those people with ther houses in order will have maximal gains from Mag-10. You can give buyers of Mag-10 all the good info you want but you can’t include a free bottle of motivation, and you can’t change their habits. I my self am 6’6" 275, my diet is flawless, my training is evolving, and my rest is plenty, My house is in order and i am ready to see what Mag-10 can do for me.

As mentioned above, the overall protein and
calorie intake are very important. But here is
one thing related to that that is often
overlooked: I think a lot of bodybuilders are
either type II diabetic or “borderline” type
II diabetic without knowing it. Often from
high dose and/or long term caffeine abuse. So
even if they are eating enough calories, their
bodies can not assimilate and utilize as much
of the calories/protein as it should. This
won’t eliminate gains from a cycle, but it
definitely can significantly reduce them.
Anyone who has to be on a low carb diet to
function well, or considers themself “carb
sensitive” fall into this category. And there
are a lot of those people on this forum.
Everyone who has those traits should get
checked out thoroughly for insulin function
and sensitivity.

Generally, most people are smart enough to train properly/adequately (at least biotest customers).

Sufficent training volume, increased caloric intake, 9 hours of sleep. Do not go over recommended dosage. That would be my approach. As far as making sure First-time biotest customers know what to do, you really can’t, unless you do the cybergenics or met-rx thing and include a training and nutrition program along with it.

Never done anything but Androsol, but I’ve got to believe it’s diet. Bucketloads of calories and proteins.

I would guess #1)insufficient protein intake because of what all the “protein experts” are feeding the public #2)Inadequate calories and #3)Improper dosing.

Not sure I understand the question. Are you and Tim looking for suggestions, or do you already have it figured out and are wanting to see if we can guess?

Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest,Diet & Rest

We know what we think is the main thing
that would probably hold some people back,
out of their not making a necessary change,
but it’s not clear whether we really ought
to give instructions on that point on the
label, whether there really is a need for
that or whether most people would get it
right anyway.

Bill: Diet seems like it’s going to be the most critical thing. I’ve been following massive eating with great results (in combo with some Nandrosol/Androsol/Tribex), and my calories are roughly 20x my body weight, but I for one don’t know how to eat while on steroids, which sounds like it is the most optimal way to eat while on Mag-10. Perhaps an “eating on Mag-10 for dummies” would be of some value here. BTW, I’ve been training for about 4 years, so I don’t think this is “newbie” results.

The other problem I see people having is that you've made something that basically requires you to eat, train, sleep, etc. like your on the juice. Some people may not get the point - they want all of the results, with none of the work. Same reason (well, one of them) why fat burners fly off the shelf - people want the results, but dont really want to do the cardio. You have to make it crystal clear that this is an aid to an end, not the solution to the problem.


somehow i dont see sleep as being the number one or two biggest mistake, if you guys read over at elitfitness boards, a lot of bbers cant sleep worth shit while “on” and still make real good gains.

If a bodybuilder is not making the gains he should regardless of whether he is on something or not the reason is usually diet related. Quite simply if you don’t eat enough you don’t grow. Food in itself is very anabolic…even if one did nothing but lay around all day and eat like a pig some muscle will accumulate along with the fat. If a natural trainee is not making gains it’s most likely due to not eating enough…If he adds anabolics to the equation and changes nothing else then not only is he still not eating enough but with the metabolism slightly elevated from the anabolics he will now be in a negative caloric balance and will be lucky to see any results other then maybe firming up a bit.

It’s diet,without a question.Many people think that steroids actually build muscle, and therefore assume that diet is not that important. I’ve been trying to explain that to several young juicers in my gym, but those pesky kids never listen.

Most T-mag readers train hard and know about protein in take. So is it carb intake? You know, too many people being carb-phobic?

Put in in the forum or a regular T-mag weekly article. The more you put on the label, the more it becomes a guarantee of results. Unless, of course, you word it as a caveat–“You must do A, B, and C even to expect any results.” Tim probably considers that to be bad marketing.

Why not spell it out in this tread?

#1 is FEAR OF FAT!!! To give you an idea of what I mean…Bessie(my cow) as been trying some andro-moo for two weeks now. Gains the first week were very nice, however then she started being upset about feeling bloated, and having a distended stomach from constantly eating, and that nice roll of blubber that was developing. So she cut back on her feed pail…and progress immediatly slowed down. Needless to say…she is back to eating like…well, a cow again, and just accepting that she will put on some blubber. Reading other boards, most guys who use even Test end up getting fatter as they gain size…it is a fact of life for all but a few lucky ones…or those who can weigh every ounce of food they put in their mouth. If too many users of Mag-10 go into it…wanting to gain 20 pounds of muscle…but not an ounce of fat…it isn’t going to happen, and if they cut back calories because they see a bit of pudge developing…then you will see that “Mag-10 sucks…I didn’t gain anything on it.” So in summary, you cannot fear the fat!!

Has to be diet related. I mean look what the pros eat when juicing heavily. Most normal people wouldn’t think of eating like that.