T Nation

Mag 10 Works


#1

Just finished Phase Two of the Growth Surge Project.(Issues 182 -184)

Yikes man,... 5500 calories is a lot of food.

Two a days make you sore all the time.

Anyway here are the results.

Lean mass gained 14 lb
Fat mas gained 9 lb

Chest + 3.25"
Arms +1.00"
Thigh +3.00"
Calves +1.00"
Waist +3.25" :frowning:

Looking forward to the Recovery Stage and a couple days off!


#2

Hrmmm...

...methinks with gains like that you should be eating and throwing back tribex and methoxy RIGHT NOW!

Make sure you don't restrict carbs/protein/calories yet by any means.

14 lbs.?


#3

Nice results, did you double dose or use 1 a day?


#4

Atreides, how many grams of protein, carbs and fat did you take in while on Mag-10? And did you calculate that number based on LBM or TBW?

Sorry that I'm full of questions, but how many meals a day where you taking in? Up in the middle of the night for a meal?

And finally, what types of carbs were you taking in; starchy, low/high fiber, sweet, anything goes, green veggie type?

Inquiring minds want to know. (grin)


#5

Were you coming back from a long layoff or shitty diet? Hopefully you can hang on to most of those gains. Good job.


#6

This was a single dose of Mag 10.

Over the last year, I'd been on a diet(to loose 75 lbs) followed by some maintenace over the last 3 months.

This was my first attempt for a bulking phase. I tried to follow the Growth Surge Project food guidelines that John Berardi provides from Massive Eating.

Computations were done using LBM. For the Priming Stage calorie intake was 4400 with ratios at 35% Protein 30 % Fat and 35% Carbs. When I saw this was adding more fat than I liked, I switched to 30 % Protein 20 % Fat and 50% Carbs. Fortunately, I caught this before the 'Surge' and went with the 30/20/50 guidelines for the 5500 calorie per day Growth Surge.

Meals were as follows,
6 AM During/Post Workout Shake
7 AM Breakfast P + C
9 AM Snack Carb
1030 AM Snack P + F
1200 Lunch P + C
300 Snack
530 During/Post Workout Shake
700 First Post Workout Meal P+ C
800 Second Post Workout Meal P + C
930 Third Post Workout Meal P + C

@ 2AM waking- 3 scoops of Grow.

In general I stuck with whole foods and High GI Carbs. ie Honey Nut Cheerios, Baked Beans.


#7

post your stats after a month or so. then they will mean something.


#8

Holly Cow Atreides,
14lb of lean mass is great(I don't know if I would call 9Lb of fat great) but it looks like you tend to put (or put back) fat easily. I would try to eliminate cheerios and other junk, (eat a lot of vegetables and sweet potatoes instead.) Next time you go for size try more P+F meals and use P+C only post work out. Most people grow better with high P and C ratios while "on" but since you just lost a lot of fat and might have some insulin sensitivity issues stick with lower/moderate carb intake. I'm sure Tampa-Terry will have some good advice for you. Good luck


#9

For inquiring minds, this is a closer look at my food log. From December 3rd.

6 AM ? serving Surge during W/O and ? after

7 AM 2 four oz chicken breasts, 2 16 oz glasses orange juice, banana, apple, 1 cup coffee

9 AM Quaker Oat Breakfast Square

10:30 AM 1 can tuna fish, 30 Omega 3 caps

12/1230 PM
Peasant Stew (chicken)428 63/7.5/27
Tuna Helper 393 33/6/53

3 PM 1 can tuna, 1 grow bar

5:30 PM ? serving Surge during W/O, BCAA supplement during W/O 40g Protein

7:00 PM ? serving Surge post W/O

8:00 PM 2 slices homemade pizza 266 24/7.5/26, 4 cups honey nut cheerios, 2 16 oz glasses of orange juice

9:30 PM 2 slices homemade pizza 266 24/7.5/26, 2 cups baked beans, 16 oz glass of V8

@ 2AM - 3 scoops Grow

Daily Target was 5500 cals, 400 g protein, 120 g fat, and 700 g Carbs


#10

Atreides, I would make only two suggestions if you decide to do Mag-10 again:

  1. Except for your fish oil/EFA requirements the last meal of the day, drop fat as low as possible; lean cuts of meat, no extra fat. Nada!

  2. Eat predominantly P+C meals, low/no fiber, starchy, minimal (if any) green veggies. The reason is that the lower the fiber, the easier it is to meet your carb requirements. Stuffing your face aint' fun. When you're "on," spiking insulin every meal is perfectly okay, even desirable.

BTW, there's a possibility that you didn't gain that much fat. Give it a couple of weeks and do a body comp test again.

All I can say is that's one heckuva job. You've come a long way, baby!!! (grin)


#11

Atreides...congrats on the great gains bro..
I was wondering...what was your bodyfat percentage before the Mag10 gaining phase? I am aware of the tendency to add more fat when your percent is over 10 or so. just curious where you were at and maybe where you are at now...


#12

I don't like to be the negative voice here but your gains were way out of whack. 3" to your chest and 3" to your waist? You should have lowered your bodyfat % to less than 10-12% before you went on Mag10. I believe your results would be more aesthetically pleasing that way. There really are no shortcuts to success with this crazy thing we do...you still have to follow the basics.


#13

I would have to respectfully disagree with Tampa-Terry. Now that I can see your diet I know why you gained 9lb of fat. Too much junk, (breakfast squares,cheerios, 4 slices of pizza per day...)I would also gain a ton of fat if I ate like that. I can only speak for myself but I tend to grow and also put on fat easily. Trick was learning what works for me so I don't gain the fat as well as muscle. High P and F with a ton of vegetables and P+C post workout worked. Good luck.


#14

Bruno, disagreement and opposing points of view are the cornerstone of T-Mag. Nothing disrespectful 'bout that at all. (grin)

There are differences in how a person should eat when they're on Mag-10 and when they're in what is called the recovery phase. If the goal were maximum size, protein should run 2g x TBW and carbs should run 3g x TBW, with fat as low as possible. The only way to take in that volume of carbs is to keep fiber low.

"On" is about the only time that you can get away with eating white potatoes, white rice, pasta and other high(er) glycemic carbs. Take a look at the Skinny Bastard diet for a better idea of what I'm talking about.

However, during the recovery phase (the two weeks "off"), protein should be brought down to 1.5g x TBW and carbs should probably be brought down to 1-1.5g x TBW. At that time, carb choices should be your classic BB fare, sweet potatoes, brown rice, oatmeal, green veggies and fruit.

The approach is the same, but the numbers are a bit different if one wanted to stay roughly the same size, gaining a little muscle and reducing fat. Mag-10 can also be used in severe cutting diets. Different numbers in that case, though, as you might imagine.


#15

PtrDr & Avoid Roids- You have correctly guessed my bf was a bit high to start.

Started at 214 and 14.1 % bf
Ended at 237 and 16.2 % bf

I agree that + 3" to the waist meant something was out of wack.

BrunoG - I agree that I need to make smarter choices for carbs, although, I've read several threads saying Honey Nut Cheerios was the way to go Post Workout.

For the record, I was used to maintenance at 2600 cals. So, at 5500 I knew I would pack some fat on.

Thanks for all the feedback. I probably won't do another Growth Surge until I see 9% bf at which point I would expect to see better results.

Two weeks for the Recovery stage and then it will be time to pay the price.


#16

My suggestion to try lower carb intake stems from the fact that this is an individual who lost 75 Lb in the past year
and obviously has a lot of "shrunken" fat cells laying around on standby. It seems that he would be someone who is predisposed to accelerated fat gain as compared to someone who is in shape. It is my guess that he would have better results with lower carb intake or at least more favorable muscle to fat gain ratio.