I’m curious as to what you guys have experienced with both of these Biotest products? In essence, which do you choose and why would you choose one over the other? Is it price? Safety margin? They same to yield significant lean muscle gains so I’m confused to which one I go to. Help is greatly appreciated. Thanks. New Cam
haha. You might want to read the previous posts in this forum before asking such a silly question.
Most people will get two or three times better results from MAG-10, at least. Androsol is good, but MAG-10 is just that much better, that much more evolved etc. It does cost more than Androsol, but you get much better results. Androsol is really obsolete now, but Biotest chose to keep it around because it has such a large following (at least for now, that may change as Androsol fans try MAG-10).
Bill Roberts wrote something a while back saying that while MAG-10 may cost more per bottle, one could take very small doses of it and get Androsol-like gains at Androsol-like prices since the bottle will last longer. I have a feeling Tim dislikes this idea because he really wants people to get their socks knocked off by MAG-10 at one or two servings per day. I agree.
Long story short- MAG-10 is a much better product and much easier to use (no spraying) than Androsol. The price is higher but the results reflect the higher price, meaning you get what you pay for.
I had the same question to Bill Roberts. Hope it gets posted. I also want to know whether or not Androsol has DHT, estrogen or testicular shrinkage side effects.
I like them both, I use Androsol to spike the MAG 10 in the evening or just before a workout, I like the CNS effects of Androsol,
I also use Androsol at 20 sprays 1 x day morning only, wash off completely in evening between cycles of Mag 10
Androsol gave me a much larger increase in libido than MAG-10, so I hope Biotest keeps it around for “recreational” use.
4-AD (whether in Androsol or as 4-AD-EC in MAG-10) cannot convert directly to
either estrogen or DHT.
A quite limited amount
does convert to testosterone, and so then second conversions after that can yield estrogen or DHT, but because conversion to
testosterone is so limited (only about 300-400
ng/dL) it’s no different in that regard
than any supplement which raises your natural
testosterone by other means, or even dietary or exercise changes increasing your testosterone.
Estrogen levels actually don’t rise at all with Androsol, surprisingly enough. I suppose this is because while testosterone levels increase about 50%, the aromatase enyzme
probably gets inhibited by a corresponding amount by the 4-AD.
Based on what I’ve read in posts on Mag-10, I don’t think Androsol is needed anymore for gains since Mag-10 can deliver big gains in a short time. However I can still see myself buying Androsol for cutting cycles because it is relatively inexpensive and still very effective.
Chris or Bill, what would be considered a small enough dose of Mag-10 to equal say 70 sprays of Androsol? Instead of “bridging” between 2 on/4 off cycles of Mag-10 with morning only use of Androsol, could one use this small dose of Mag-10 instead?
I expect that Androsol or Nandrosol (which I wish were still being made) are better choices
for bridging than MAG-10.
Reason is, different androgens have different
ratios of anabolic (also I suppose anti-catabolic) vs. inhibitory activity. For example, Primobolan has an exceptionally good ratio and you can get significant anabolic boost with low adverse effect on natural testosterone production. At the other extreme, trenbolone quite adversely affects natural
testosterone production at doses still too low to help much anabolically.
4-AD is at the “Primo” end of the scale,
being not very inhibitory while still giving
good results. There’s enough experience with Androsol now to be confident of this.
Whether an A1-E/4-AD combination is also
an exceptional performer in this regard,
or instead acts like a typical steroid stack,
we don’t know yet. I’d have to assume it
probably acts like a typical steroid stack
and therefore isn’t as good for bridging
using low doses as is 4-AD alone, Primo alone,
or morning-only Dianabol, etc.
At this point, I think that androsol could best be utilized on an intense diet phase to help maintain lean body mass and also because it is less expensive. For mass though, I would have to say, that MAG-10 is the way to go although Androsol still works great.
I know that Mag 10 does not have the adverse side affects like converting to estrogen or DHT, but what about testicle shrinkage? Since testosterone is suppressed during a Mag 10 cycle, I would think you would get a little shrinkage. Maybe I am wrong.
Bill, thanks for your answer. The information is just further ammo for Biotest coming out with a 4-AD-EC only product for exactly this type of bridging technique. If Mag-10 ends up not suppressing the HPTA too badly (more like Primo), then you have just created the anabolic holy grail.
I think Androsol is effective for maintaining lean mass on a cutting cycle. I’ll never use it while bulking again, because it doesn’t seem to do work that way for me. However, I will probably pick up a couple bottles for my next diet phase. Especially if Biotest brings the price down some, which would be sweet, since they’ll probably be getting rich off of Mag-10 for quite some time. =)
Any reply to my last question? Bill, if you have any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
Jvall, I’d have to assume that as with
any effective androgen cycle, if one stays
on MAG-10 long enough there would be noticeable
shrinkage (reversible after the cycle) but
this would not normally occur in only 2 weeks.
The cause of shrinkage, when it occurs, is prolonged loss of the stimulus provided by LH.
Two weeks is generally not enough time for
reduction of LH to have significant effect
on testicular size, just as 2 weeks of not training is generally not enough to result in severe loss of muscular size.