T Nation

MAG-10 + 4AD 2 Week Log


People seem to enjoy reading the logs so I figured I’d log my upcoming 2 week run.
I haven’t used anything for almost a year so it’s time to scratch the itch.
I will be running a double dose of MAG-10 legacy (880mg/day) along with a single dose of 4AD-EC (300mg/day).

I have been doing a westside style program for a while now and I will be doing a 2 a day, 3 on 1 off high volume program for the cycle. I started monday with what I will call the primer phase. I’ll run through the routine once and then take a few days off before starting the cycle. I’ve had issues on past cycles with being so sore after the first run through the routine that I end having to take more then 1 day off which really friggs up a cycle this short.

i can post the routine I’ll be using if anyone would like to see it.

Right now I’m looking at about 4,800 cals/day but that may have to be adjusted depending on how things go.

Supps include the usual. Daily multi vit, 3-4 grams of vit C, 15 grams of fish oil, BCAA’s, ZMA, 10g of creatine, and 200mg of caffeine before lifting.

I probably won’t have time to check in every day, but I’ll try to give updates every few days.

I am curious as to the legality of these two. I am not up on my prohormones anymore. Are these two still legal to buy OTC?

From my previous MAG-10 experience, I’d expect 7-8 pounds to be a reasonable expectation for a 2 weeker with a little fat gain. This will be the first time i have added a class II so we’ll see what happens.

Right now my diet looks to be 400g pro, 500g carbs, 150g fat, which comes out a little higher in cals then I had previously mentioned.
I always follow Berardi’s theory on P+C and P+F meals along with consuming carbs early in the day and fats at night.

I won’t bother listing my whole diet but it will basicly be a big P+C breakfast, 2x PWO shakes, 2x PWO meals, and that will take care of the carbs. Then in the evening/early night will be eggs, cottage cheese, cheese, peanut butter, mixed nuts. Last meal is somewhere in the middle of the night(whenever I happen to wake up to take a leak) which is 60g mix of whey and casein along with 2 tbsp of olive oil and 1 tbsp of safflower oil.

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
2thepain wrote:
I am curious as to the legality of these two. I am not up on my prohormones anymore. Are these two still legal to buy OTC?

  I don't think either is available anymore 2the, unless it's aquired from someone who has frozen a supply and is willing to kick down some for a price.

                 [/quote]

Thats right
They were both discontinued after the newer steroid laws went into effect in 2004 I think it was.

You can buy 1AD and 4AD. Not the MAG-10. What’s in that stuff anyways?

1ad and 4ad are now banned substances. If it is still being sold OTC, it must be a changed formula like they did with halodrol 50.

These 2 articles have some good info on it.
In short, it’s a stack of a class I (A1-E) and class II (4-AD-EC).

It would be similar to stacking 1AD with 4AD.

Yes, there are companies now that label their stuff 4-AD but it isn’t even a similar substance, and the same may be true for 1-AD. There is no nutritional supplement company selling either of these substances regardless of whether they say they are or not. So that is something to watch out for.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Yes, there are companies now that label their stuff 4-AD but it isn’t even a similar substance, and the same may be true for 1-AD. There is no nutritional supplement company selling either of these substances regardless of whether they say they are or not. So that is something to watch out for. [/quote]

Hi Bill
I’m glad you chimed in on this one. As you probably read, my plan is to run a double dose of the legacy along with a single dose of the 4AD-EC. I’m curious as to if you believe the single dose will be enough to make up for the weaker class II side of the MAG-10?
If i remember right, you suggested half of a typical dose of anadrol or dianabol would be sufficient to pick up the slack, but 4AD-EC is obviously much weaker.

Thanks

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Yes, there are companies now that label their stuff 4-AD but it isn’t even a similar substance, and the same may be true for 1-AD. There is no nutritional supplement company selling either of these substances regardless of whether they say they are or not. So that is something to watch out for. [/quote]

Arg! Some of these guys are sneaky bastards. I’ve even seen Ergo 1AD on the net for sale. So all this stuff is bunk? Oh well the real thing costs less anyways.

I’m also following your log here, fire.

I never did get to try that 4-AD-EC, but I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for the MAG-10 Legacy.

[quote]chillain wrote:
I’m also following your log here, fire.

I never did get to try that 4-AD-EC, but I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for the MAG-10 Legacy.

[/quote]

It definitely is some good stuff.
If we had only known how things would be today, I would have bought 10 cases of the stuff.

Today was the last workout of my primer phase. The next 3 days are off and everything will start up on Monday.

First dose was tonight-had a single dose leftover.
I haven’t gotten an answer from Bill yet on his opinion as to whether a single dose of 4ad-ec should be sufficient so until I hear otherwise, I will stick to the original plan.

Tomorrow is chest in the AM and back in the PM.

First off, i apologize to anyone trying to follow this. I just haven’t had time to update this for a few days.
Its getting late now so i wont go into huge detail but here is a rundown of the last few days.

Started on Monday.
Chest in the AM
flat bench 5x5
Inc DB 4x7
bar dips 4x7
Flys, strip set of 6 sets
Hanging leg raise, 3x failure
All went well. A little increase in strength on the bench but nothing to write home about.

Monday PM. Back.
BB rows 5x5
Wide grip PU’s 5x5
Seated cable rows 4x7
Chins 4x7
Rear delt flys, strip set of 5 sets
Same story as the AM.

Tuesday AM
Quads
Squat 5x5, about 1/2 way between parallel and full
Rev lunges 4x7
Leg ext strip set of 5 sets
Stand calf raise, big pyramid set of 12 or so sets
Seated calf raise, 5x7
Squats were quite impressive-for me anyway. Went up a little on the weight and the 5x5 ended up being 2x5, 1x6, 1x7, 1x8

Tues PM was shoulders.
It was supposed to go like this.
BB seated press 5x5
arnold press 4x7
upright row 3x7
lateral raises, strip set of 5 sets
db shrugs 4x7
Big mistake here was trying to work delts the day after chest. I set it up this way because having hams and quads in the same day really kicked my ass in the past, but it looks like I will be going back to that from now on.
I got 3 sets into the Arnold presses and something in the right shoulder wasn’t happy. I skipped the last set of AP’s and the upright rows.

Wednesday
Unscheduled day off.
I wanted to make sure the shoulder would be ok and the legs were trashed after the squats so doing hams was not going to happen.

Thursday AM
Hams
DL’s 5x5
SL DL’s 4x7
leg curls, strip set of 6 sets
calf pulls, 4x7
DL’s went well. Up a little on the weight and a couple extra reps.

Thurs PM
arms
CG bench supersetted with bb curls, 4x5
Overhead tri ext SS’d with inc DB curls, 3x7
DB kickbacks SS"d with conc curls, 3x7
wrist curls SS’d with rev wrist curls.

I borrowed the basic routine from Lee Hayward and just changed the sets/reps a little.

Friday
Scheduled off day
Shoveled snow

Today
Pecs were still a little sore so I swapped the AM and PM routines around.
Back in the AM
Up a little on the rows, extra couple reps on the wide PU’s.

Pm
Chest
Up a little on the bench weight
Lost a few reps on the dips for some reason.

Bodyweight is up about 4 lbs from monday, weighed prior to AM lifting both times.

I did not notice much of a strength gain on my prior MAG-10 cycles so the added 4ad-ec could be attributing to that, or it could just be all in my head.

I have decided to no longer try to stick with a set schedule and instead just work whatever doesn’t hurt, or hurts the least.

Sunday–Quads
Squats: Up on the weight and 5x5 ended up being 5x6.
4 sets of lunges with an extra set for the left leg. Up a little on the weight and 8-9 reps per set.
Strip set of 6 sets of leg ext.

For some reason my calves don’t hurt the following day after training. So this time I decided to beat the hell out of them and see what happens.
Standing calf raise-pyramid set of 11 sets.
Seated calf raise, 6 sets
Donkey calf raise, 6 sets-didn’t have a passenger on hand so I just loaded up my dip belt with as much as I could fit between my knees without being in the way (125lb).

After all that, they still didn’t hurt the following day.

Monday.
I was planning on doing hams today but after shoveling snow for several hours in the morning, my back was definitely not up to the task, so I did arms instead.
Nothing real impressive to report here. Up a little weight here, up a couple reps there.

Tues.
Hams today AM.
My back was still not ready for deads so I did 2 sets of SL deads instead and that was about all it could take.
Next was 4 sets of GHR’s followed by a strip set of 4 sets of ham curls.
Next came 4 sets of calf pulls supersetted with 4 sets of weighted crunches.

Tues PM
Shoulders
I went fairly easy with the shoulders since I’m still having some right RC issues.
4 sets seated BB press.
3 sets of light, high rep DB presses
A few sets of lateral raises.
I also started doing an extra exercise and some stretching for the RC and it’s already feeling much better.
Last I did 5 or 6 sets of heavy BB shrugs to make up for the lack of deadlifts this time around.

Today-wed

BW is up 6.5 lbs from the start 10 days ago.
Calories have actually been lower then I originally stated. I have been around 4500 cal instead of the 4800 that I was originally shooting for. This actually seems to be working out pretty well since I have still gained a decent amount of weight.
I have also been running creating at 15g/day instead of 10 like I had originally said.

Today AM was chest.
This was probably the best workout I’ve had so far.
Bench was up another 5lb, 5x5.
4 sets of incline DB’s. Up 1 rep on 3 out of 4 sets.
3 sets of dips, up a couple reps overall.
I felt so good that I threw in a couple sets of flat DB bench. Had a great pump after all that.
Finished off chest with a strip set of 5 sets of flys.
4 sets of hanging leg raises finished off the morning.

Another great workout tonight-Back.
BB rows, 5x5, up a little on the weight.
Wide grip PU’s, 5x5, up a couple reps overall
Seated cable rows, 4x7, up on the weight
Chins, 4x7, up a couple reps overall.

i decided to throw in a couple extra exercises just for the hell of it.

1 arm cable rows, 2x12
I’m not sure if the next one has a name but it was a 1 arm lat pulldown at about 30 degrees off vertical so you’re pulling into the body as well as down. I just wanted to try something a little different. did 2x10 on these.

Finished it off with a strip set of 3 sets of rear delt flys.

I will admit I have strayed a bit from my diet over the last couple days. I had a big steak with mashed potatoes, veggies and a small piece of pie last night and a nice plate of spaghetti and meatballs tonight. I’ve been pretty good besides that.

Hi guys,

quick question:

I have some MAG-10 (and some other stuff) that expired in 2007 (has not been in a freezer). Can I still use it?

Thanks,
KH