I am about to turn 18 in January and have been looking at Mag-10 for a long time. I know it says that Mag-10 shouldn't be taken by anyone under the age of 18. I am about to turn 18 and I am thinking about it. I have been training hard and making pretty steady gains for about 2 years. Has anyone out there taken mag-10 that is under 21 years old? If so, how were your results?
The "under 18" guideline is not about getting results, it's about:
1) When you're 18, natural Test levels should be so high that with diet and training in order, steady gains should be no problem.
2) If you're not done growing prohormones (like some steroids) can prematurely end your growth (height). Many people continue growing into their early 20's.
3) If #1 & #2 aren't reason enough, It's just not good to mess with a endocrine system that may not be fully matured.
But you're 18, so the choice is yours.
Speed, a while back there was a thread titled, "Mag-10 and Teens." I'm going to quote Char-Dawg's post on that thread, as it is a classic.
"The basic problem with teens taking something like MAG-10 is not so much a "scientific" one, to my mind, as it is a developmental one. And by developmental, I mean developmental in the sense of your "life as a bodybuilder".
"Let's say you have two guys who train naturally. They get started at age 15 or so. They get their newbie gains, whooee. A quarter inch on their arms every month for a whole year! They put some serious pounds on their frames. They fall in love with bodybuilding, resolve to make it a lifestyle.
"But then things start to get tough. The gains don't come as quickly, and suddenly that Weider routine isn't doing the job anymore. They spend a year, then two, not making much in the way of gains. What's a young bodybuilder to do?
"Person A resolves to study up and increase his knowledge. He starts learning about diet. And he makes some new gains. Not as fast as the newbie stuff, but still, they're solid. Then he starts checking out some other routines. He tries a little Ian King, a little Poliquin. He spends a year powerlifting.
"More gains happen. Again, they're slow, but they're steady. More to the point, he knows what he did to get them, and he can use that knowledge to progress even further. Maybe he starts to train a few others around him, make a little money on the side.
"One of these clients is a woman who no one else ever really looked at because she was too fat. But through his efforts, she slims down, starts taking pride in herself, and falls in love with him. They marry, have kids. They kids grow up seeing dad in the gym, day after day, week in and week out. Although he's 50 now, he still looks pretty damn good, and he can still whip both their asses in arm wrestling. They want to get into the gym to get these benefits for themselves. Family together time increases.
"As he's gotten older, maybe Person A has tried various supplements...
and maybe he's tried some androgens as well. But it's always been with the intention of adding them in to what already works, to see what happens, rather than using them as a substitute for what he can't achieve on his own.
"What about Person B? Well, he just can't wait for those gains. He wants to be big, and he wants it now. He knows that there might be some risks involved with taking an androgen at such a young age, but hey. Two of his buddies did cycles a year ago, got some good muscle, and they're okay. So he decides to try some stuff too.
"So he takes the androgen. And BOOM, there's a whole lot of new muscle, almost instantaneously. He's stylin'. He goes off for a while, because he knows that it's a good idea to cycle off, but during this time he doesn't make any more progress. In fact, he loses a lot of what he gained. So as soon as he can, he takes some more. Boom, there's more muscle. Of course, the "boom" is smaller this time, but it's still there. He's good again.
"People come up to him in the gym and ask how he made the gains. He's an honest guy, so he tells them. "Oh", they say. "I see. So what kind of diet and training did you use?" Maybe he didn't change much of anything for his cycles, maybe he did. But the point is, whatever he tells these people, they're gonna be thinking, "Uh huh. Bet it was the juice". And it may or may not be. Point is, he doesn't know.
"So when he gets a little older, and sees himself start to get out of shape, what does he think? Dang, I need to get back into shape. Gonna have to buy some more MAG-10. But now it doesn't work as well as it used to for him. He's older, but not any wiser. Doesn't really know much more about training than he did to begin with.
"When he gets married and has kids (assuming that he wasn't so gung-ho to get big during his youth that he hasn't permanently fucked up his endocrine systems), what are they going to see? A guy who put too much stress on his system at too young an age, and now looks older than he should. A guy who, despite spending years in the gym, doesn't really know what he's doing. A guy who relies on a drug to do what he doesn't have the patience and knowledge to do for himself.
"What kind of an example is that? More to the point, what sort of self-knowledge has Person B gotten? Does he know more about training? No. Does he know more about dieting? No. Is he more disciplined? No. Does he, in the final analysis, even look better? Probably not. He might in the short run, but not in the long.
"Okay, so the point of all this is: bodybuilding can give you much much more than bigger biceps. If you let it, it will teach you about yourself and educate you in many different ways. But just like anything else, if you take a shortcut the only thing you're doing is short-changing yourself.
"I can only hope that you (and your friends) are mature enough to see this and realize the importance that it can have for you in your lives. "
Bravo TT! Now I see why you got poster of the year. All of that info is gold. Aside from all that stuff TT said, the physical development is the most important reason not to take prohormones early. Your body will continue to grow, change, and develop well into your 20's. I've heard stories of people packing on massive amounts of muscle during their mid-twenties without changing their programs or supplementation. If you start messing with your hormone levels early, you could short change yourself later on. You could permanantly stunt your growth in regard to height, muscle, and other things. Plus, even if you think 18 is close enough to full-grown many things inside your body are still developing, even though you can't see them. Prohormones could throw these internal processes out of whack and the problems may not manifest themselves until later in life. If you really want to up your anabolic state at your age, just take some ZMA. It will bolster your T-levels naturally without messing with your hormone pathways. Then check your eating habits and workouts to insure that you are doing what you need to gain muscle.
Fishdog, thank you for the kind words, but that magnificently written epic work was written by Char-Dawg.
You're right that it's pure gold, as good a post on the topic as has ever been seen on this forum!!!
Thank you tampa, warhorse, and fishdog. You guys couldn't be more right. That was the good old kick in the nuts I needed. After reading what you said, it totally changed my thinking. Thanks for taking the time to post.
Good solid thinking, speed! I'm proud of you. You're far more mature than your years.
[Wipes tear from eye]
Now I'm all verklmept...
Seriously, Speed, good call. You sound like a smart young man.
Personally, I continue to make good gains into my 40s just by changing training protocols and diets around. And I've been doing this since I was 15, so it's not like they're newbie gains or anything.
It can be done.
what if he becomes person a in a couple of years, Now he is 20 or 21 knows how to gain muscle and is educated Is it okay now or do you al think it is still too young????
Jeep, his mid-twenties is more like it. But that's just my opinon on the subject. It would be interesting to hear others' thoughts on what the appropriate age is to do your first Mag-10 cycle.
Personally? My rule of thumb for androgen usage is: 26 years old OR four-five years of correct training and diet under one's belt, whichever comes last.
26 is the age at which most men are finally completely fully grown. Bone plates have closed, the whole bit. Four or five years of good training is what's necessary to really get all the way through the newbie gains and start to work with what will be your "real" body for the rest of your life.
Of course, if you have the chance to be a pro athlete or something, and stand to make a lot of money over the next ten years if you can make the team, and everyone else is using, then it might be a different cost/benefit situation. But for your average gym rat, there's no good reason to use. No one is "peaked out" or even anywhere near reaching their limits in their early 20s. So it's really kind of silly to use something that powerful when there are still plenty of other alternatives that will net you good gains, and teach you something in the process.