T Nation

Madcow's Periodical or Linear?

I havent been on here for a while, school can’t give me no break. Alright here is the deal I’ve been on mark’s SS for like 5 months and a half, and honestly im really sick of those powercleans and all the rest of that SS program. I’m also stuck at 220lb on the power cleans, progress on the rest of the movements are also stagnant except for the deadlift. I’ve deloaded twice for bench and once for pc…i think.

Anyway, I started doing reasearch on Madcow’s a while ago but that lasted only one day due to all the school shit that i have to take care of. But now i want to restart that research but i dont know wherether i should use the periodical or linear version. Another thing is that my arms are being neglected, is there anyway that i can jump to a different routine, one that really takes care of the arms?

Yes.

Just start training your arms.

I did Madcow linear for a while. It’s a decent program but it’s better if you add a little direct arm work and some calf raises.

Oh thats great news i mean this madcows seems to be pretty similar to SS where the arms are being left out when you take into consideration how the other muscles are being hammered. So, good, I could start a normal “Ass busting Free Workout”? That is too good to be true. Ok, so would make a good fallow up routine for the ss program. Just gimme a name and i’ll do the research; note-i still want to work my trapezious not with powercleans though, i think pc work the upper trapz to a minimal degree. Thanks!!!

[quote]Damner wrote:
Oh thats great news i mean this madcows seems to be pretty similar to SS where the arms are being left out when you take into consideration how the other muscles are being hammered.

So, good, I could start a normal “Ass busting Free Workout”? That is too good to be true. Ok, so would make a good fallow up routine for the ss program. Just gimme a name and i’ll do the research; note-i still want to work my trapezious not with powercleans though, i think pc work the upper trapz to a minimal degree. Thanks!!! [/quote]

I have no idea what you are trying to say. You’re welcome.

where did i lose u?..ok so does this site give any good fallow up workout for SS or should i do my research somewhere else?

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

Madcow intermediate is a good follow-up program once you’ve got all you can from Starting Strength.

Like I said, do the program as it is written. Add some arm isolation and calf work. You won’t need a whole lot of iso but you will need some. Throw in a couple of curl variations, close grip BP skullcrushers, calf raises, and you are set.

Squat, Bench, Military Press…? Arent i supose to do something completely different i mean this is 80 percent of what i was doing in SS, it’s a like bad nightmare to do it all over again.

I’m not trying to be an ass dude, your the only one helping me out but how is it possible that i will keep making gains at movements that im already stuck at?

[quote]Damner wrote:
Squat, Bench, Military Press…? Arent i supose to do something completely different i mean this is 80 percent of what i was doing in SS, it’s a like bad nightmare to do it all over again.

I’m not trying to be an ass dude, your the only one helping me out but how is it possible that i will keep making gains at movements that im already stuck at?[/quote]

The exercises are similar but the method is different. Read the info on the site if you don’t want to do it do something else. If you are tired of the full-body routine then do a split.

If you’ve been giving full body a good go for 5 months then a split could be a way to go, just as a way to test for yourself what you respond well to.

I don’t know if anyone has told you this, but you absolutely do not have to follow a “routine”, at least not one that anyone but you yourself created.

[quote]mr popular wrote:
I don’t know if anyone has told you this, but you absolutely do not have to follow a “routine”, at least not one that anyone but you yourself created.[/quote]

Word. I haven’t seen a routine yet that adheres to my schedule. And full-body workouts got me some good progress, but it has slowed down to a crawl, so I’m trying a split for awhile.

Change it up, keep it interesting. If you get bored and stop seeing progress, you’ll quit.

I feel much better now that you all say i could do something else than those ass busting movements at least for a while. Ok, i had a 3 day based program for ss right now i’m thinking of sticking to the same 3 day system since i really can’t set aside any more free time for the gym.

But i have no clue on how to set my split based program, i mean 5x5 system is completly different than any of these different body part workouts every other day or so. What plan should i follow though is there a good one on here for someone that just finished the SS?

perhaps:

Day 1: Chest/Back

Day 2: Legs

Day 3: Shoulders & Arms

[quote]forbes wrote:
perhaps:

Day 1: Chest/Back

Day 2: Legs

Day 3: Shoulders & Arms[/quote]

I’ve done a split like this in the past. Simple and works well. Currently I would tweak it and add

Day 4: Legs

why? personal preference and I believe in a solid foundation

Oh that sounds god but i dont have time to add a 4th day, will working those muscles only once a week realy pay off though? If adding a 4th day makes all the individual workout session shorter then so be it. I thought i had to work arms twice a week for maximun hypertrophy.

If right now you are BB Curling 85lbs for 8 reps, and 6 months from now you are curling 115lbs for 8 reps, it doesn’t matter if you hit arms once a week or twice a week during that time.

The only reason to increase the frequency of bodyparts hit to twice a week is if you think this will allow you to actually make faster strength gains (eg: if by training arms twice a week this has allowed you to instead be curling 135lbsx8 after 6 months)

Most people don’t do well with this idea for all of their bodyparts at once, however, so instead most bodybuilders opt to hit each muscle group hard and heavy once a week, and once they have built a solid foundation of size all over, they train any muscle groups they think are lagging or need to come out more twice a week.

Doing a 3-way split like what was recommended to you seems like a good idea right now, you just have to consider what exercises you are going to be doing and how this is going to affect the schedule.

For example, I would never do a leg day right after training my back because it would impair my ability to do deadlifts. But maybe that isn’t a problem for you? Figure it out (IN THE GYM).

[quote]mr popular wrote:
If right now you are BB Curling 85lbs for 8 reps, and 6 months from now you are curling 115lbs for 8 reps, it doesn’t matter if you hit arms once a week or twice a week during that time.

The only reason to increase the frequency of bodyparts hit to twice a week is if you think this will allow you to actually make faster strength gains (eg: if by training arms twice a week this has allowed you to instead be curling 135lbsx8 after 6 months)

Most people don’t do well with this idea for all of their bodyparts at once, however, so instead most bodybuilders opt to hit each muscle group hard and heavy once a week, and once they have built a solid foundation of size all over, they train any muscle groups they think are lagging or need to come out more twice a week.

Doing a 3-way split like what was recommended to you seems like a good idea right now, you just have to consider what exercises you are going to be doing and how this is going to affect the schedule.

For example, I would never do a leg day right after training my back because it would impair my ability to do deadlifts. But maybe that isn’t a problem for you? Figure it out (IN THE GYM).[/quote]

Ok so like the poster forbes said day one Chest & back, day 2 Legs, Day 3 Shoulder & arms. Day one is monday, 2 is wednesday, and 3 is friday, hopefully the fact that this plan uses the same frequency of workout and rest days as before wont hamper anything…i’ll keep my fingers crossed.

Anyway i have alot more questions to ask but i feel like i shouldnt ask you guys since i know it gets irritating, is there a program that works just like this so i can do more research on frequency, volume, and and all those things?
Here are some routines by CW, which one would be better suited for me.

If any of you folks have tried them let me know how it went.
Anti-Bodybuilding Hypertrophy I
Anti-Bodybuilding Hypertrophy II
Strength Focused Mesocycle
SOB Training
Triple Total Training
Hybrid Hypertrophy
Waterbury Method
Total Body Training (blank)
Total Body Training (with exercises)
Quattro Dynamo
Singles Club
Big Boy Basics
Next Big 3
Outlaw Strength & Conditioning

If your goals are bodybuilding, I’d avoid programs like that. Chad Waterbury isn’t a bodybuilder, as far as I know he doesn’t train any bodybuilders (successfully), and in fact he has even openly stated on several occassions that he DISLIKES bodybuilding.

So he would be the wrong person to take bodybuilding advice and programs from.

Honestly, the “research” you could do on volume, frequency, etc. is not going to help you as much as you think. In fact, it will probably steer you in the WRONG direction, and give you a mentality of self-limitations and fitness dogma.

The best research you could do, would be to find guys that have gone from where you are now, to where you want to be, and find out how they did it. This could be online (bodyspace.com is a great resource for this), or in your gym, or tnation, or wherever.

That is what got me heading in the right direction after spinning my wheels trying to learn about the perfect scientific way of training and eating and blah blah blah, its all crap! There is NO REPLACEMENT for finding out what works for you, and your body alone.

[quote]mr popular wrote:
If your goals are bodybuilding, I’d avoid programs like that. Chad Waterbury isn’t a bodybuilder, as far as I know he doesn’t train any bodybuilders (successfully), and in fact he has even openly stated on several occassions that he DISLIKES bodybuilding.

So he would be the wrong person to take bodybuilding advice and programs from.

Honestly, the “research” you could do on volume, frequency, etc. is not going to help you as much as you think. In fact, it will probably steer you in the WRONG direction, and give you a mentality of self-limitations and fitness dogma.

The best research you could do, would be to find guys that have gone from where you are now, to where you want to be, and find out how they did it. This could be online (bodyspace.com is a great resource for this), or in your gym, or tnation, or wherever.

That is what got me heading in the right direction after spinning my wheels trying to learn about the perfect scientific way of training and eating and blah blah blah, its all crap! There is NO REPLACEMENT for finding out what works for you, and your body alone.[/quote]

the search engine on here is not very sophisticated,