T Nation

Lowest Effective Dose, Is This Actually Good Advice?

Interesting. What were you typically running? Must have been some good strength compounds to have gains in strength while losing 30 lbs.

Well, only 22lbs. I wouldn’t want to be 30lbs out from a show 12 weeks away.

My AAS strategy was fairly simple, with some variation depending on what was available:

  • 200mg/wk Testosterone Cypionate (I felt I got less gyno than on Enanthate, but I thought Enanthate was stronger. It was just I feeling I had. I cannot rationalize it)
  • 200mg/wk Deca
  • An Oral at about 30mg/day. If it was a “wet” oral I switched 6 weeks in to usually Anavar until Wednesday before the show. If it were Winstrol I would stay on it until Wednesday before the show.

I might add an additional weekly injection on top of my “basic” injections. It might be Winstrol V 50mg, Equipoise ??mg (1 cc), Methandriol 50 mg, Parabolin (78mg?), 1 cc.

I should add for those haven’t heard me say this, but I started taking AAS’s in 1970 and only took orals, usually only Dianabol and no more than 15mg/day until 1977, where I added 1cc Deca per week. And then in 1978 I added 200mg of test per week, which is the must testosterone I ever took. I understand that strategy has changed greatly over the years.


Not to be a math nazi, but 240-212 is 28. You maybe respond well to AAS. I don’t think I would gain strength losing that amount of weight over 12 weeks. I have gotten stronger losing that amount of weight, but it took me a year.

Sorry for the typo. My weight was between 215lbs and 218lbs at weigh-in.

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More doable, but I still don’t think I would get much stronger, and would probably lose strength. Maybe I am fairly strong to start, so that makes losing strength a bit easier?

Have you been “off” cycle long enough for the strength to drop? I believe you might experience the same strength increase. But you need to be on a consistent caloric and protein intake for the “off” cycle time. Then when you start AAS’s, start a slight calorie reduction. The problem with this test is if the weight loss has no purpose, why waste the maximum muscle building opportunity. So, there’s that.

But I will say if you want to improve your body composition I would recommend doing it “on” cycle, where you are in a muscle sparing condition.

Hard to say. I don’t go off, I cruise (at 175 mg of TE per week). I have gotten stronger on cruise after a blast, and even losing weight, but it was less weight lost, and over a longer period of time.

My recent bench and deadlift PRs were on cruise. I did 385, and 600. My weight was not down by much for either though (maybe 5 lbs).

I actually noticed smth similar as @RT_Nomad … When i was just starting and also cycled, i found this theory of blasting for 4 weeks of short esters and taking 2 weeks off and so on. I liked that idea as i also noticed that i didnt gain much longer than 4 weeks. I wonder if i could use that approach with a cruise. Maybe my next blast will be 4 weeks of high dose prop, tren and loads of GH… Could try that for fun maybe…

The bro-science way back before the internet was that the steroid binding sites lost their sensitivity as the cycle got longer, so you might as well give them a rest and start anew a little later.

No one knows until they try. I think the idea of seeing what you can get out of the lower doses is risk minimization, and nothing more. If you can make satisfactory progress toward your goals on 250/wk, why do 1,000?

For example, you said you set PRs last cruise, and you have some fuckin awesome numbers, by the way.

Begs the question, then why are you on 700+ mgs of gear right now? Are you still not getting the results you want?

I, personally, keep increasing my doses each blast because I am not happy with rate of gain.

But it sounds like you were crushing it on cruise? So why the big cycles? Aren’t you taking unnecessary risk?

If I could consistently set PRs and feel even halfway decent on 175/wk, I’d stay there forever.

As my genetics are shit, I have to eat 5000+ and pin 700+ just to see gains.

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Well, I didn’t seem to make much progress on my last blast. The PRs were fairly small. I think it was fun the heavier lifting after the blast which I did mostly volume.

I also gain fat easily. That is my biggest motivation for the higher numbers. I want to end the blast looking jacked, not just big.

I’ll say to that I don’t think total mg matters completely. I am running 875 test, but I think that is less harm than say 500 test and 300 tren. I do have tbol in the mix, but that is only for another 2 weeks.

IMO min effective dose is basically what @readalot said. It’s about risk mitigation especially when you don’t even know how your body will react, and MOST people that fly by night through here need to hear “minimum effective dose”. But those of us that are more well developed AND know how we respond can go for a higher dose and MAYBE you should go for a higher dose. There’s a reason I doubled my gear usage on this current cycle, and it seems to have paid off beautifully.

In fact I think I could’ve still been making gains more than 16 weeks into this cycle if I hadn’t hit a proverbial wall.

EDIT: of course we all hit a wall and that’s why you cycle off, I meant proverbial wall with respect to fatigue build up and soft tissue aggravation from my peaking cycle. Plus, my peak ended since my comp is starting today


Unless you haven’t trained a day in your life, chances are you aren’t going to keep 15 lbs of lbm from one cycle.

They do? I’ve done the opposite… I think the majority of those on trt don’t blast.


I guess the caveat to that is that the blast would have to be long (20-26 weeks).