T Nation

Lowery Thurs. Thread - Got Questions?


#1

Okay all, I'm here 7ish until about 9:00 PM EST if you have some thoughts to share.

LL


#2

Such a thing as too much protein intake during the day? For the sake of protein sysnthesis how much is too much? Would gas issues be a sign?


#3

Hey LL,

John Berardi recommends a pre, para, and post workout shake. With his recommendations and my bodyweight I'd be consuming 180 grams of malto/dextrose and 90 grams of whey. The whey doesn't scare me, but 180 grams of sugar in an hour and 15 minutes does. Will this effect my insulin sensitivity? Are there any other negatives with this much sugar consumption? I hate to question JB's expertise, but all that sugar is scary.

Thanks,
-poper


#4

Hey LL, just a few quick questions for you:

1)Do you have a prefered method or forumla for calculating caloric intake.

2)Do you recommend using fat burners during the entire duration of a cutting phase?

3) Do you universal recommend that people keep their carbs early in the day?

Thanks for your help Lonnie.
-Greg


#5

This is a damn good question:

I'm pretty sure that if you're bulking it's a good idea to take advantage of the six-hour post workout window to stuff yourself with quality calories as much as possible (correct me if I'm wrong).

But what about if you're dieting? I wonder if you can do the same thing? What are the limits on this thing?

Thanks.


#6

Deleting a mistaken post...don't mind my absentmindedness today..

TB


#7

Sorry guys, for any delay. Got a call from Tim Patterson...


#8

I'm such a dork..my bad..
Just woke up (China) and jumped on to Prime Time and did the wrong thing..

damn.

TB


#9

LLLLLLLLL....

In a two-a-day workout style do you lose the ability to conveniently organize into respective P+C and P+F meals?

If one lifted at 10 and 6 it would appear that the majority of your day would be spent in this "anabolic window".

How would one consider a macronutrient break down or meal break down for the a two-a-day warrior.


#10

bigpump,
Too much protein typically becomes wasteful as opposed to harmful. (There could be some risks depending on family disease history, personal intolerances and allergies, etc.) Of course gas and bloating usually come from overly concentrated protein shakes (osmolality issues causing "dumping" in the intestines).


#11

poper,
your concerns are one reason why I prefer to make small changes in a person's lifestyle over time. Diet books and programs and systems sometimes ask for pretty radical changes from how a guy presently lives. Asking too much too fast can lead to legitimate client/ patient concerns and potentially non-compliance.

BUT JB knows quite a bit about behavior mod., I'm sure, and suffice it to say that most truly hard training athletes (as opposed to weekend warriors) should indeed be consuming more carbs during the pre-, mid-, post-workout time period than they presently do.

One way some concerned guys address this is to start out with a change half-way to the recommendation for a month or so and assess the results. Then they might move up to the full recommendation of their trainer/ guru/ coach. Just a thought.

Remember though, kcal balance is important and those para-workout hours are a KEY time to get the carbs doing what one wants them to do.


#12

Any thoughts on some of the newer joint supps e.g.

--Celadrin (on iherb's home page)

--ASU (Avocado-Soybean Unsaponifiable) which I've only seen mentioned on the web page of Dr Theo (the guy who wrote the arthritis cure)

--type II collagen (absorption?)


#13

LL,
Did you fully recover from the car crash, or did you have to modify you training?


#14

Greg,
Just quickly...
1. calorie needs: college men average about 3000. I like the simplicity of getting RMR by just calculating 1.0 kcal per kg body mass per hour:

80kg x 1.0 x 24 = 1920 kcal just for laying around

After this it gets stickier by way of "correction factors" (multiply by 1.3 for being mobile, all the way up to 2.0 for high levels of activity. There are more exact ways to calculate this. try a SEARCH on the Forum or among articles here on the site.

  1. fat burners: too many types and issues to address here.

  2. carbs in the AM: Getting a larger proportion of carbs earlier in the day (and para-workout) with an overall reduction in total carb load throughout the evening hours (barring PM workout days) is the concept. No one shuold be saying to eliminate carbs after lunch entirely. People need to take these tips and apply them in a practical manner to THEIR lifestyles.


#15

On the topic of wasteful protein, when on a bulking diet and consuming upwards of 4000 kcal. My protein consumption is averaging about 300-350 grams per day. This is well above the 1-1.5 grams/lb. generally suggested. Is this wasteful? Should these calories be coming from elsewhere such as carbs to meet daily calorie goals. Fat gain is not an issue for me due to super fast metabolism. I plan on bulking until reach my weight goal of an extra 10-15 lbs LBM. Any insight?


#16

NateN,
The limits come from fitting those para-workout meals into one's DAILY kcal balance and meal plan. That is, if one needs 3000 kcal to maintain but he's down to 2400 while "dieting", he's thinking about six meals of roughly 400 kcal each. It might look like this:

breakfast: 400
2nd breakfast: 400
lunch: 400
pre-workout: PRO and fluid only (100 kcal perhaps?)
mid-workout: 200 (drink)
post workout: 500 (over two meals if desired)
dinner: 400

This is a gross general example, of course. You can see that the pre-, mid-, post-workout meals comprise a full 800 of his 2400 kcal daily intake. Tthat's a big 1/3 of the total in a pretty short time period but a GOOD time period for results!


#17

TriGWU,
That would indeed affect a double "anabolic window". Whether that means twice the speed of progress is another matter but it's a cool concept nonetheless!

The pre, mid-, post (hereafter "para-workout") window would trump any other daily "diurnal" factors, making protein important before hand (and P+C for mass gain), carbs during the session and P+C again post-session a good idea. Fat shouldn't interfere with the improved carb metabolism post workout, according to research, but it might slow gastric emptying, so one might consider getting in the fats away from the workouts or as part of a secondary (later) post-workout meal.

Again, fitting the concepts into a personalized lifestyle plan helps with compliance.


#18

Rick,
Thanks for asking.
Naw, I'm still struggling. I believe I cracked my sternum and I still can't bench - even dumbells with one arm in varying degrees of supination/ pronantion are OUT. Ugh.

Even squatting is keeping it from healing. I've decided to bite the bullet (HARD) and not lift for two months. Then it'll be a slow reintroduction period. Meanwhile I've been focusing on my kendo because it doesn't hurt, and actually trying to run three times per week.

Rather than crank down my diet, I'm going to get away from strict physique pursuits for a while and just go with my situation. Other interests need pursuing for a while. Zen...


#19

Mr. Lowery,

Is it me or does there seem to be a lack of the mentioning of pork when anyone speaks of a high protein diet. I'm talking about the lean pork loin cutlets. Are these not a valuable source of animal protein?

Thanks for all your contributions to the site!

Brian


#20

nickaval,
According to new data from a very respectable lab in Canada, we're back to focusing on gross kcal rather than huge PRO intake for experienced, adapted weight trainers. For decades this protein requirement thing has truly been a pendulum swinging. New data always helps, though.

Having said that, the source of said calories should be healthier choices for a given lifter like monounsaturates (olive and canola oils, nuts*), low-glycemic carbs during non-workout periods (e.g. oats, low-fat triscuit-type crackers, many fruits and vegetables), low-fat dairy*, etc.

Also, protein itself is a calorie source but not a preferred one (unlike say, lions, we humans don't metabolize protein preferentially as fuel). Still, the human body regulates kcal intake pretty tightly day to day, not necessarily the kcal sources, so excess protein usually isn't a problem when it's comprising some of those kcal needs (even if it's not helpful as actual building blocks).