T Nation

Lowering High E with Supplements?


#1

Anyone ever use Gaspari Nutrition's Novedex XT to lower E? I thought I would give this a try before going the pharma route


#2

Got lab numbers?


#3

Correct me if Im wrong but you would probably get e rebound from an otc I would ask your doctor.


#4

[quote]KSman wrote:
Got lab numbers?[/quote]
Here you go:
Test Result Range
Chem 14
NA 135 135-146
CL 99 95-108
CO2 28 24-34
K 4.7 3.5-5.0
Glucose 77 70-110
Bun 34 10-26
Creatinine 1.5 0.5-1.5
Estimated GFR 51 >60 rate

Total protein 6.9 6.0-8.4
Albumin 4.1 2.6-5.2
Calcium 9.9 8.5-10.5
Bilirubin total 0.7 0.1-1.1
SGOT/AST 59 7-40
SGPT/ALT 70 17-65

ALK Phos total 52 30-115
Estrogen 285 40-115
Testosterone 1094 241-827 this number was 240 before 2 months on 10g androgel ed doc ordered me off the andro fro 2 weeks and re-test this coming week I cut back to half the doseage
done by labcorp


#5

[quote]Frenchman wrote:
Correct me if Im wrong but you would probably get e rebound from an otc I would ask your doctor.[/quote]

what does e rebound mean?


#6

[quote]hammertime2 wrote:
KSman wrote:
Got lab numbers?
Here you go:
Test Result Range
Chem 14
NA 135 135-146
CL 99 95-108
CO2 28 24-34
K 4.7 3.5-5.0
Glucose 77 70-110
Bun 34 10-26
Creatinine 1.5 0.5-1.5
Estimated GFR 51 >60 rate

Total protein 6.9 6.0-8.4
Albumin 4.1 2.6-5.2
Calcium 9.9 8.5-10.5
Bilirubin total 0.7 0.1-1.1
SGOT/AST 59 7-40
SGPT/ALT 70 17-65

ALK Phos total 52 30-115
Estrogen 285 40-115
Testosterone 1094 241-827 this number was 240 before 2 months on 10g androgel ed doc ordered me off the andro fro 2 weeks and re-test this coming week I cut back to half the doseage
done by labcorp
[/quote]

Wow… I missed your E2 results the first time through. I’m not sure what test was actually run with that particular scale range, but the problem is obvious. You have the same “problem” I do it appears; we both redily convert T into E2. There are many herbal/natural supps available to reduce E2 levels, but nobody has really done any any extensive double blind studies that I know of. There are Resveratrol, DIM, Chrysin, and IC-3 as E2 reducers just to name a few; but when it comes down to it Adex has been studied again and again…and works predictably on both men and women.

Ratio wise, your E2 is almost triple what it “should” be, and Adex would would sure improve the quality of life in so many ways. I cuurently use 2mg’s a week of adex to keep my E2 at bay, but 1mg/week is a great starting point for most men on TRT. If necessary get the liquid version so you can custom dose as needed. For many it will take a month or so to notice a change in symptoms. There are those of course that are “over-responders” to Adex, and the changes are noticable within a few days…


#7

That result is LabCorp:
Estrogens, Total
Test Number: 004549 CPT Code: 82672

Hammertime - Ask your doc for serum E2 next time.

AST and ALT are up. If you had worked your muscles until they were sore before the lab test, that could have created these results. But, there is a concern that these could be from a liver problem. Your liver clears estrogens from the blood stream and if the liver has problems, it can then not remove estrogens at a proper rate, E levels increase, the HPTA responds with lower LH,FSH and T.

Some drugs, Rx or OTC are metabolized the the same P450 enzyme pathways that are needed to clear E. The demands imposed on by such drugs and alcohol can reduce E clearance.

You need to review drugs and supplements for this potential. Follow up with another liver enzyme test at some point were you have not been training your muscles intensely beforehand. I can review drugs etc with you by PM if needed.

Your high E levels do not make sense with your 10% BF. You will need big guns to correct this. You need to find the root cause as well as reduce T–>E aromatization rates. I think that supplements are not going to do the job.

Transdermals also cause more T–>E aromatization compared to injections. Some guys strongly convert T–E with T gels. T creams that are stronger but applied to smaller areas produce less E than gels. If adex does not fix this you may need to change delivery systems.

With serum E2 tests, you should dose adex to get near E2=22pg/ml for peak libido, energy, mood and mental function. I think that you would feel way better. Elevated E can make guys feel crappy even with TT levels as high as yours. E level management is critical.

I would like to also see FT numbers. Your FT could easily be lower than it should be as high E levels cause higher SHBG levels that reduce FT.


#8

[quote]KSman wrote:
That result is LabCorp:
Estrogens, Total
Test Number: 004549 CPT Code: 82672

Hammertime - Ask your doc for serum E2 next time.

AST and ALT are up. If you had worked your muscles until they were sore before the lab test, that could have created these results. But, there is a concern that these could be from a liver problem. Your liver clears estrogens from the blood stream and if the liver has problems, it can then not remove estrogens at a proper rate, E levels increase, the HPTA responds with lower LH,FSH and T.

Some drugs, Rx or OTC are metabolized the the same P450 enzyme pathways that are needed to clear E. The demands imposed on by such drugs and alcohol can reduce E clearance.

You need to review drugs and supplements for this potential. Follow up with another liver enzyme test at some point were you have not been training your muscles intensely beforehand. I can review drugs etc with you by PM if needed.

Your high E levels do not make sense with your 10% BF. You will need big guns to correct this. You need to find the root cause as well as reduce T–>E aromatization rates. I think that supplements are not going to do the job.

Transdermals also cause more T–>E aromatization compared to injections. Some guys strongly convert T–E with T gels. T creams that are stronger but applied to smaller areas produce less E than gels. If adex does not fix this you may need to change delivery systems.

With serum E2 tests, you should dose adex to get near E2=22pg/ml for peak libido, energy, mood and mental function. I think that you would feel way better. Elevated E can make guys feel crappy even with TT levels as high as yours. E level management is critical.

I would like to also see FT numbers. Your FT could easily be lower than it should be as high E levels cause higher SHBG levels that reduce FT. [/quote]

Thanks man I am going to send you PM w all particulars I did in fact get tested appox 1 hr after training which I thought could at least be part of this negative numbers I am going to get re-tested this week 1st thing in the morning


#9

[quote]hammertime2 wrote:
I did in fact get tested appox 1 hr after training which I thought could at least be part of this negative numbers I am going to get re-tested this week 1st thing in the morning[/quote]

Levels also track muscle mass, which explains why males have higher levels than female.

My wife worked out to major muscle soreness in many muscle groups before labs once, her levels were crazy high from that. Muscle busing or a heart attack can also raise levels.