T Nation

Lowering Estradiol

Guys, I’m not certain if this is the right place to post this question so please be gentle if I should have posted elsewhere. I just had a fairly comprehensive blood panel done (first one in a while) and I’m looking for some advice on how to improve some readings. In particular, my estradiol levels seemed quite high at 52.3 pg/mL while the top end of the normal range is 42.6. This concerns me because of the obvious health issues from high estrogen but also because it seems significantly beyond just high normal.

I’m still trying to decide the best course of action to take in light of this result. I’m 32, 5’7" 220 lbs and carry most of my bodyfat in my lower body (ass and thighs). Here are a few more figures from the panel to paint a slightly better picture:

Total T = 893 ng/dl [350-1200]
Free T = 11.4 pg/ml [8.7-25.1]
DHEA-S = 158.2 ug/dl [160-449]
Estradiol = 52.3 pg/ml [7.6 - 42.6]

TSH = 1.78 uIU/ml [0.450-4.5]
Thyroxine = 7.3 micrograms/dL [4.5-12.0]
T3 uptake = 35% [24-39]
T4, free = 1.38 ng/dL [.82-1.77]
Triiodothyronine, Free = 2.3 [2.0-4.4]

Hematocrit = 43.5 [37.5-51]
Iron = 88 ug/dl [40-155]

Cholesterol Total = 129 mg/dl [100-199]
Hdl = 55 mg/dl [>39]
LDL = 66 mg/dl [0-99]

Triglycerides = 39 mg/dl [0-149]

AST (sgot) = 41 IU/L [0-40]
ALT (sgpt) = 34 IU/L [0-44}

Vitamin D, 25Hydroxy = 46.0 [30-100]

Fasting glucose = 79 mg/dL [65-99]
Hemoglobin A1c = 5.0% [4.8-5.6]
Est avg glucose = 97 mg/dL

WBC = 3.3 x10E3/uL [4.0-10.5]

I guess mainly wondering if this figure is high enough to warrant skipping straight to medications like arimidex or clomiphene? I’m not opposed to trying that route if that is what is necessary. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, I included my white count because it being low did catch my eye. The last time I had it checked was the day I had to have my appendix removed, but my white count was normal at that point. My doc almost sent me home because of the “normal” white count and a lack of significant pain. Luckily, he sent me for a ct scan and caught the acute appendicitis. The whole time I thought I was wasting my entire day at the hospital waiting for the scan lol.

Edit: As recommended in the stickies, here is some additional info about me:

-age: 32
-height: 5’7"
-waist: 36ish" (when I was fitted for a tux recently they said 35" but I swear when I use tape at home I get 37")
-weight: 220lbs
-describe body and facial hair
I’m not a very hairy guy. Some chest hair and hair on legs. Facial hair grows quickly enough to be make me shave every other day but grows very little beyond that. It would be impossible for me to grow a beard. I have something of a receding hair line. My dad was almost bald by the time he was 28 so I guess I should consider myself lucky.

-describe where you carry fat and how changed: Lower belly and especially ass and thighs.
-health conditions, symptoms [history]: I’m not really sure I have any significant health conditions.
-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever: I used propecia (1mg/day) for about 18 months when I was 21-22.
-lab results with ranges: posted above
-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets]:
I’m trying an IF diet for the past 2 months and I was only having small breakfasts prior to that. A typical day the past 2 months has been
lunch: 6oz meat, veges,and 1oz almonds
3:30 30 grams of whey protein
5:30 2 scoops of anaconda during my workout
7:15: 50grams of whey protein
8:00: a large dinner consisting of around 12oz meat, veges, rice or potatoes and an apple or two
All tolled it generally comes in around 2400 calories with about 40% protein/40% carbs and 20% fat.

-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training]: Well, my new job makes it pretty tough to maintain a very strict regimen, but I’ve been in the gym lifting at least 3x/week every week and sometimes 5x/week this year. Prior to that I was in the gym 4x/week nearly every week the previous 2 years. Over those year I’d do 2 upper and 2 lower body workouts each week with rep ranges in the 5-12 range. This year I’ve been trying to lift heavier a little more frequently, and I’ve been trying Christian Thibaudeau’s layer system for the past 2 months. Some additional conditioning work when I have the time or substituted on the days I cannot get to the gym.

-testes ache, ever, with a fever?: No, at least not that ever remember.
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: Well, was virtually on-existent in my 20’s and is better now. Granted, I lived a VERY unhealthy lifestyle in my 20’s so that’s not saying much. I have morning wood a couple times a week I’d say.

I take no prescriptions meds at this time and have not with any regularity in the past with the exception of propecia as previously mentioned. From about 10/5/10-3/1/11 I did take 800mg ibuprofen every day at my surgeon’s recommendation. I most likely did not need to take it as long as I did but I went overly cautious at the time. I suppose I am something of a supplement whore. I take fish oil, vitamin d, creatine, whey protein, anaconda, indigo-3g and I just started using coQ10. Kinda overboard I guess.

As for other lifestyle choices, I almost never drink and when I do it’s a single over the course of the night. Sadly, I was probably an undiagnosed alcoholic from about 19-24. I haven’t drank with any regularity in about 6 years. I just started using iodized salt about 2 months ago. Previously I used iodine free salt. Other than that, I probably do not eat any substantial sources of iodine. I usually feel pretty good in the mornings with the exception of being cold sometimes. In the afternoon, I usually get sleepy and cranky no matter what I eat for lunch. At first I figured it was because I used too many carbs at lunch but over the past couple months I’ve had virtually none during lunch so I’m stumped on that front.

Day 1 Morning temp: 96.7 degrees I did have to get out of bed because I forgot to leave the thermometer next to the bed.
Afternoon temp: I couldn’t take it because I had ot attend my brother’s graduation and it was 90ish degrees so I thought that might throw off the reading.

Day 2 morning temp: 96.8 degrees.
temp at 1:00 (pre-workout): 97.8
temp at 3:30 (post-workout): 97.7 I wore a light jacket through the whole workout. This was a little odd since I normally remove it once I feel like I’m sufficiently warmed up. I never felt the need to remove it today, but it was an upper body day so that was likely part of the reason.

Day 3 morning temp: 96.1 degrees.
temp at 3:00: 97.7 degrees.

E2 is way too high and that is probably causing your SBGH to get high which is why your total T looks great, but free T is low.

Arimidex might help in your case. 1 mg in divided doses a week.

Dhea is low and cholesterol is also too low.

Cholesterol under 160 is a problem.

Try LEF DHEA

Liver ultrasound.

[quote]iw84aces wrote:
Liver ultrasound.[/quote]

  • 2

You enzymes are a bit elevated, you’re not clearing E2 properly and cholesterol production is low.

http://m.naturalnews.com/news/028275_white_blood_cells_immune_function.html

[quote]Tunapancake wrote:
E2 is way too high and that is probably causing your SBGH to get high which is why your total T looks great, but free T is low.

Arimidex might help in your case. 1 mg in divided doses a week.

Dhea is low and cholesterol is also too low.

Cholesterol under 160 is a problem.

Try LEF DHEA[/quote]

I knew cholesterol being too low could be problematic, but I didn’t realize being under 160 was where the problems could begin. I’ve always had fairly low cholesterol with my highest reading I ever remember being in the 140’s. I doubt my regular doctor will be willing to prescribe medication but I’m gonna make an appointment and see if he’s gotten more progressive over the past few years. I’ll probably start

DHEA was something I had not at all considered even after this panel, but I’ll look into it.

[quote]Tunapancake wrote:

[quote]iw84aces wrote:
Liver ultrasound.[/quote]

  • 2

You enzymes are a bit elevated, you’re not clearing E2 properly and cholesterol production is low.[/quote]

Liver ultrasound? Alright, this is something I’ll also bring up with my doc. I imagine he may be more concerned with this than the elevated estradiol. I remember having a panel done about a decade ago and my doc was a little alarmed at my liver numbers but ultimately did nothing about it. I’m a little ashamed to say that from about age 18 to 24 I was a fairly heavy drinker and now I’m beginning to wonder if I did some permanent damage to my liver. Not a good thought, but it’s hardly the only stupid thing I did at that point of my life.

I really appreciate the help fellas.

[quote]iw84aces wrote:
http://m.naturalnews.com/news/028275_white_blood_cells_immune_function.html[/quote]

I already do most of the things in that article but I’m sure it can’t hurt to try to incorporate a few more. Thanks again.

Make sure if you get an ultrasound do it first thing in the morning. By afternoon we are full of a lot of gas and the tests may prove useless… Your enzymes are only up a little bit I’m sure it’s nothing to serious and u can bring them down yourself fairly easily to an extent. Milk thistle from the seeds is good, milk thistle from the whole plant is high in estrogens and not recommened.

Read the advice for new guys sticky. List all medical conditions and medicines, Rx and OTC.
Drugs/alcohol can increase liver markers and E2.

If you are on a low fat diet, that is wrong.

Your thyroid meds are a mess, read the thyroid basics sticky. Docs are real idiots with the thyroid ranges, which are a problem too.

  • post your waking and mid afternoon oral body temperatures
  • post history of iodine intake from iodized salt and vitamins that list iodine
  • then ping me at the “KSman is here” thread.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Read the advice for new guys sticky. List all medical conditions and medicines, Rx and OTC.
Drugs/alcohol can increase liver markers and E2.

If you are on a low fat diet, that is wrong.

Your thyroid meds are a mess, read the thyroid basics sticky. Docs are real idiots with the thyroid ranges, which are a problem too.

  • post your waking and mid afternoon oral body temperatures
  • post history of iodine intake from iodized salt and vitamins that list iodine
  • then ping me at the “KSman is here” thread.

[/quote]
Got most of the info added. I really didn’t think my thyroid numbers were that bad. I’ll post waking and afternoon temps over the weekend.

fT3 should be near 3.3 and your body temps are quite low. Possibly rT3 is also making things worse.

Thyroid ranges cannot be used to imply health by being in the normal range. TSH near 1.0 is good. rT3 should be in the lower end of the range. The others are best near mid range.

FT is low and TT is good. So SHBG is high. Increased E2 increases SHBG. Liver problems can decrease E2 clearance, which increases E2 levels.

Lowering E2 with anastrozole should have multiple benefits.
Liver may be an issue.
Low cholesterol is an issue, eat more red meat, cheese and less fish and chicken.
Correction of thyroid issues should facilitate fat loss and improve how you feel and function.
Correct iodine levels, look at iodine replenishment in the thyroid basics sticky.

[quote]KSman wrote:
fT3 should be near 3.3 and your body temps are quite low. Possibly rT3 is also making things worse.

Thyroid ranges cannot be used to imply health by being in the normal range. TSH near 1.0 is good. rT3 should be in the lower end of the range. The others are best near mid range.

FT is low and TT is good. So SHBG is high. Increased E2 increases SHBG. Liver problems can decrease E2 clearance, which increases E2 levels.

Lowering E2 with anastrozole should have multiple benefits.
Liver may be an issue.
Low cholesterol is an issue, eat more red meat, cheese and less fish and chicken.
Correction of thyroid issues should facilitate fat loss and improve how you feel and function.
Correct iodine levels, look at iodine replenishment in the thyroid basics sticky.[/quote]

Well, it may be a couple months before I can get anything done about the E2 levels. My primary doc was very hesitant to do anything, and referred me to an endocrinologist (earliest I can see him is late July). In fact, my primary doc was convinced the E2 reading was lab error. I suppose in the meantime I could try some thing like resveratol. I can work on my iodine replenishment in the meantime.

When you suggest more red meat and cheese, is it specifically the saturated fat in red meat I should be after or would any saturated fat (eggs, coconut oil, butter etc) I should try to get?

Thank you for all the help.

Edit: Btw, should iodine supps, looking at Iodoral right now, be taken at certain times or with/without certain nutrients? For example, is it fat soluble and should be taken with some dietary fat? Are there any other minerals that should not be taken at the same time as iodine?

Well, finally got to see an endocrinologist. He seems to want to disregard the estradiol number so he had me take another blood test. So I’ll see how that goes. I was a not quite satisfied with his attempt to explain why that result would be invalid but all others are valid. Unless it’s significantly within the normal range I will push for either an aromatase inhibitor or something like clomiphene. If he isn’t willing to prescribe anything I may just have to try resveratol or something else that lower estrogen.

He seemed far more interested in my thyroid. He found a goiter doing a quick exam so he’s having me get an ultrasound of it and check my free t3 numbers this week. He said that a malfunctioning thyroid could cause the high estrogen result. I had never read anything like that but I accepted his explanation. Kinda funny, he seemed ready to disregard the high estradiol result on its own, but felt it might be a real result once he found something that was in his wheelhouse (thyroid). All in all, I should know more by Monday.

Don’t bother with iodine… It screwed up my thyroid…

Ksman is stuck on this but my buddy ended up in the hospital with heart palpitations and I now have an enlarged thyroid and hot flashes…

Ya eat hormone filled red meats and cheese this is gonna help estrogen lol what a joke

The results of the blood test I took showed my estradiol level af 36pg/dl with 39 being on the upper end of the range of that test. It was “within range” so the endocrinologist doesn’t seem interested in doing anything. I felt that the test being done in the afternoon might be responsible for the slightly lower reading because sex hormone levels fall through the day. So I remain concerned about high estradiol levels.

I decided to try to do something about it in the meantime. So I ordered some resveratol and began taking 600mg each morning. Last week I decided to get another hormone panel to test my hypothesis that the afternoon timing of the second test had an impact on the results, and included a thyroid test since I tried the iodine loading method KSman suggested and I have been taking 12.5mg daily for over a month. The results were kinda surprising.

Total T = 924 ng/dl [350-1200]
Free T = 9.2 pg/ml [8.7-25.1]
DHEA-S = 127.2 ug/dl [160-449]
Estradiol = 24.4 pg/ml [7.6 - 42.6]

TSH = 3.49 uIU/ml [0.450-4.5]
Thyroxine = 6.3 micrograms/dL [4.5-12.0]
T3 uptake = 33% [24-39]
T4, free = 1.19 ng/dL [.82-1.77]
Reverse T3, serum = 16.2 ng/dl [9.2-24.1]
Triiodothyronine = 71 ng/dl [71-180]
Triiodothyronine, Free = 2.3 [2.0-4.4]

So my thyroid numbers have suffered quite a bit, but my E2 numbers improved significantly after a week of resveratol use. My free test is still quite low. So all in all, I’m confused as ever. For now, I’m ditching the morning iodine and keeping the resveratol.