T Nation

Lower/Upper Split


Guys fairly new to the site just looking for some feedback on this split before I start it.

Lower 1
Deadlift 5x5
Back Squat 4x12
DB Lunges 2x8 each leg
KB Swings 3x15

Upper 1
Overhead Press 5x5
Chin Ups 5x5
DB Row 4x12
Ring Push Ups 4x12
Direct arm work
Face Pulls

Lower 2
Front Squat 5x5
RDL 4X12
Step Ups 3x8 each leg
Squat complex 3 rounds

Upper 2
DB Inlcine Press 5x5
T Bar rows 5x5
1 arm DB Overhead press 4x12
Lat pulldowns 4x12
Direct arm work
Face pulls


doesnt look bad, I would definitely not do heavy deads and squats on the same day though.

Also, with this kind of training, progression isnt built in. I would definetely suggest you take a look at 5/3/1 or another program dealing with percentages so that your progress will be built into the program, instead of just adding weight when you feel like it.

Again, check out 5/3/1.


switch front squats and back squats. Deadlifts and back squat are going to be your strongest lifts, so they shouldn't come back to back. Deadlifts and front squats then back squats and RDL's could work nicely.

Also, facepulls are great for your rear delts, but your are missing work for anterier and medial. During one of your upper days replace facepulls with some lateral raises and front raises (DB's, cables, machine, on an incline bench...whatever you like)


Thats great guys thanks, has anyone else got any thoughts on it


I was thinking that if i deadlifted and rear squatted on the same day it would be too much--the real killer would then be the kb swings being dymamic/ballistic on the back--that wouldn't work for me and i have to split those 3 into different sessions.

( i am a beginner though so maybe it would work for some)


As a beginner, I wouldn't do both front squats and back squats each week. Pick the one you're more comfortable doing and get the form down cold.

Then do whichever one you like on Lower 2 and knock out the squats on lower 1.


Man, really? I'd say ESPECIALLY as a beginner you should pull off both in a week if you can as they will compliment eachother so well as your first learning to groove with the motion. The front squat to force you to stay erect and the back squat to get you used to loading up more. I have seen the fastest progress on both when I hit both in the same week, or at least back to back 4 day cycles.

What's your rationale?


My rationale is when I did both each week, it hindered my progress. Sitting "back" (front squats) vs. sitting "down" (back squats) are two different things. I like both variations and can do both, but my progress is quicker when I stick to one (been doin back squats exclusively for a little while now).

That being said I'm more nitpicky about my form than most, as I had a knee issue that caused me to wrench my back twice pretty bad. I find it enough of a challenge to keep the form of one lift down pat, let alone two variations of that lift.


Are you really recommending him to replace a excercise for a typical under used muscle with a excercise for a typical over used muscle. If he`s front are really lagging behind his other delt heads, then yes that would be a good idea, but since he is a begginer( I assume he is because he posted this in the begginer section ) shouldt we rather apploud him for doing some extra work for the oh so neglected rear delt. I would suggest keep the facepulls in 2x a week and add some laterals if needed.

ps. I agree with you about not doing heavy deads and back squats in the same workout.

And I am not trying to be an ass, so dont take this as an personal attack


Ok, so we'll compromise.

Upper 1: facepulls and lat raises
Upper 2: rear delt flyes and front raises

He's a beginner so I believe in hitting all things equally until you see need to do otherwise.


Guys are really appreciate the advice on this but other than the shoulder work does everything else seem ok


Just like to say - hi there from Scotland! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Anyway, I think there's a bit too much hair splitting going on in here...BEFORE anyone even knows the OP's goals.

If it's more sports performance, then the upper/lower is ideal, but for bodybuilding, as a beginner, a 3-way would be more suitable (hits bodyparts at a decent frequency and allows to give them enough justice).

For bodybuilding, you can't start arguing over side/rear delts blah blah when the OP is using a very condensed routine like upper/lower. Split it up more and do what bodybuilders do.

If it's more for sports/general strength, you'll be more concerned over movement patterns than body parts. For lower day, you don't want excessive strain on your lower back and recovery (very heavy loading on the spine takes a lot of recovery) - you'll alternate between hip dominance, and knee dominance (as an example).


A solid upper/lower routine (example strength/sports performance...if it's bodybuilding you want, do a different split);

Workout 1: Chest, Chin-ups and arms
Workout 2: Squats, hamstrings, calves
Workout 3: Shoulders, Rows, chest, and arms
Workout 4: Deadlifts, upper leg exercise (no lower back fatiguing) and calves

Monday (workout 1)
-Bench Press
-Wide Grip chin
-Incline Dumbbell Bench Press
-Barbell or Dumbbell Curl
-Skull Crushers

Wednesday (workout 2)
-Glute/Ham Raises

Note; Not many exercises, but get plenty total reps/volume

Friday (workout 3)
-Incline bench press or Shoulder Press
-Tricep pushdowns
-Preacher curl

Monday (workout 4)

-Deadlift or rack deadlift/pulls (partial deadlift)
-Single leg squat variation/leg press
-Calf Raises

Wednesday (Repeat workout 1)

Friday (Repeat workout 2)

Abs can be done each workout, or every other...whatever

If recovery is good (i.e. strength doesn't stagnate) then train 4x/week on that upper/lower split


This was lifted directly from Kelly Baggett. Having said that, it's a pretty good starting point for someone new to the game. OP, why not run a proven program instead of coming up with your own thing?


Okay I agree on the compromise :slight_smile:

but doesnt now if it matters anymore, becuase its_just_me gave some awsome advice after our disagreement.


What is your training background? Why do you think this routine is good for you?