T Nation

Lower Lateral Pecs

Need something to help bring out the lower and outer pecs. I have been focusing on upper pecs with incline DB presses and flyes with pretty good success. Since this has always been a weak spot, I was surprised with the improvement over the last couple of months. However, now I find that the weakest point is the lower outer sweep. Decline cable crossovers don’t seem to be doing much, so I thought I would ask you guys.

what is your current chest routine?

For the last two months, Mon/Thurs

A1 - Incline DB presses 4x8-10
A2 - Incline DB flyes 4x8-10

B1 - Neutral Grip machine flyes 4x8-10
B2 - Decline cable x-overs 4x8-10

I did this to try to focus more on Upper chest. I haven’t done true flat bench work for the last two months.

Funny. Most want to hit their inner/upper chest. I have a nice lower/outer chest due to years of flat barbell bench and no guidance. My suggestion: focus on wide grip bb flat bench.

i think a balanced approach to chest training is best…

1 incline pressing movement
1 flat/decline pressing movement
1 or 2 fly movements

and thats it…

genetic shape and leanness

Try my chest routine, it works extremely well for myself and clients.

Incline Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8
Flat Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8
Decline Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8

That’s it no need for any flyes/crossovers/pec deck. If you want a bigger chest like yesterday do this along with Dr. Clay’s push up progressions. That combination brought my chest from a weak point to a strong point in about 2 months. (oh and that routine is obviously if you’re training each bodypart 1x a week)

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
Try my chest routine, it works extremely well for myself and clients.

Incline Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8
Flat Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8
Decline Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8

That’s it no need for any flyes/crossovers/pec deck. If you want a bigger chest like yesterday do this along with Dr. Clay’s push up progressions. That combination brought my chest from a weak point to a strong point in about 2 months. (oh and that routine is obviously if you’re training each bodypart 1x a week)[/quote]

That obviously worked for you but for someone like me who is shoulder dominant it would be a terrible idea. Half of my chest routine is fly movements and I too have brought my chest from a weakpoint to a strong point. You arent worng but it definitely wont work for everyone.

What wold you guys recommend for someone who is tricep dominant?

[quote]therajraj wrote:
What wold you guys recommend for someone who is tricep dominant? [/quote]

More fly oriented movements or benching to the neck(guillotine press style). Also pre-exhaust should work wonders(I personally am not tri-domininant but over the years on this site I have seen numerous respected posters extol on the wonder that is pre-exhaust for emphasizing your chest more and your arms less).

As a responsible poster I feel I should edit in that guillotine press is probably not the best option if you have any sort of issue with your shoulders, not the strongest position for them to be in(arms flared very wide to bring the bar to your neck).

besides flys, i would try 2 things…

  1. hammer strength machines or any other machines where the handles press inward…i would give those a try for a secondary pressing movement(in addition to a primary movement like bb or db bench)…

  2. decline movements…the true function of the chest is to bring the arm across the body and DOWN…if you put your hand out in a Y and bring your arm diagonally across your body, you will feel a hard pec contraction…thats the function of the chest…decline DB bench shows the highest EMG out of all bench movements, and it is because it mimics the function of chest very closely…

Cool,

Yeah I can’t do any barbell movements except CGBP without shoulder pain.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
Try my chest routine, it works extremely well for myself and clients.

Incline Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8
Flat Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8
Decline Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8

That’s it no need for any flyes/crossovers/pec deck. If you want a bigger chest like yesterday do this along with Dr. Clay’s push up progressions. That combination brought my chest from a weak point to a strong point in about 2 months. (oh and that routine is obviously if you’re training each bodypart 1x a week)[/quote]

That obviously worked for you but for someone like me who is shoulder dominant it would be a terrible idea. Half of my chest routine is fly movements and I too have brought my chest from a weakpoint to a strong point. You arent worng but it definitely wont work for everyone. [/quote]

How do you set your chest work up Bonez?

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
Try my chest routine, it works extremely well for myself and clients.

Incline Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8
Flat Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8
Decline Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8

That’s it no need for any flyes/crossovers/pec deck. If you want a bigger chest like yesterday do this along with Dr. Clay’s push up progressions. That combination brought my chest from a weak point to a strong point in about 2 months. (oh and that routine is obviously if you’re training each bodypart 1x a week)[/quote]

That obviously worked for you but for someone like me who is shoulder dominant it would be a terrible idea. Half of my chest routine is fly movements and I too have brought my chest from a weakpoint to a strong point. You arent worng but it definitely wont work for everyone. [/quote]

You’re right. Part of this is figuring out what works best for YOU. I probably would have been less inclined to post an actual routine without the verification that it works for other individuals with varying body types. It also seems most people around here would be better off following a preset routine than trying to come up with one themselves (not referring to op in particular).

And out of curiosity you’re saying you feel dumbbell presses more in your shoulders than your pecs? What’s your technique look like? Funny because I tend to feel flyes more in my shoulders than pecs and never feel I’m using enough weight to really do anything other than waste time or hurt my shoulder. Do you still do barbell pressing? Maybe it’s the lanky ass arms.

There might be a chance that you aren’t feeling your shoulders on flies, but actually your outer chest. Either long or short arms, db flies are an excellent exercise for the chest if done right. That means deep stretch (good ROM), chest puffed out shoulders pinched and elbows having a fixed angle (not using the triceps). Some big guys I have seen train, swore by this exercise. The key is though, to don’t be afraid and use really heavy weight (as long as form is perfect). Like if someone does it as a finisher with only 20 kg, the only thing he will get is just a chest stretch (which itself it’s not that bad).

[quote]D Public wrote:

2. decline movements…the true function of the chest is to bring the arm across the body and DOWN…if you put your hand out in a Y and bring your arm diagonally across your body, you will feel a hard pec contraction…thats the function of the chest…decline DB bench shows the highest EMG out of all bench movements, and it is because it mimics the function of chest very closely…

[/quote]

This is good. as long as the decline isnt too steep to decrease the ROM.

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
Try my chest routine, it works extremely well for myself and clients.

Incline Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8
Flat Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8
Decline Dumbbell - 4x 8,8,8, 4-8

That’s it no need for any flyes/crossovers/pec deck. If you want a bigger chest like yesterday do this along with Dr. Clay’s push up progressions. That combination brought my chest from a weak point to a strong point in about 2 months. (oh and that routine is obviously if you’re training each bodypart 1x a week)[/quote]

That obviously worked for you but for someone like me who is shoulder dominant it would be a terrible idea. Half of my chest routine is fly movements and I too have brought my chest from a weakpoint to a strong point. You arent worng but it definitely wont work for everyone. [/quote]

You’re right. Part of this is figuring out what works best for YOU. I probably would have been less inclined to post an actual routine without the verification that it works for other individuals with varying body types. It also seems most people around here would be better off following a preset routine than trying to come up with one themselves (not referring to op in particular).

And out of curiosity you’re saying you feel dumbbell presses more in your shoulders than your pecs? What’s your technique look like? Funny because I tend to feel flyes more in my shoulders than pecs and never feel I’m using enough weight to really do anything other than waste time or hurt my shoulder. Do you still do barbell pressing? Maybe it’s the lanky ass arms.[/quote]

Is the second part of the post for me?

If it is. I dont feel anything in my chest unless I preexhaust and warm up extensively. Pec deck with a puffed out chest for pre-exhaust and warm ups with 20-40lb dbs before my working sets begin. Actually thats not totally true. I can do barbell work now and feel it in my chest as but I still hit my delts hard with it. But barbells arent useless now like they used to be.

I never do dumbell flyes. Its an inefficient movement IMO. Theres no resistance in the second half.

Once I developed a better mind muscle connection I was able to get some benefit from barbell work but it took a lot of controlled contractions with cables and machines to develop that connection.

[quote]D Public wrote:
besides flys, i would try 2 things…

  1. hammer strength machines or any other machines where the handles press inward…

[/quote]

YES! Our weightroom just got several new HS machines and the chest ones I love so much now.

I never do dumbell flyes. Its an inefficient movement IMO. Theres no resistance in the second half.

Yes that is true, in the second half the torque is decreasing a lot. But that doesn’t happen also with just about every pressing move? In the top half chest gets less activation, and just the triceps are used. Maybe that’s the reason Ronnie benches the way he does.

[quote]desolator wrote:
I never do dumbell flyes. Its an inefficient movement IMO. Theres no resistance in the second half.

Yes that is true, in the second half the torque is decreasing a lot. But that doesn’t happen also with just about every pressing move? In the top half chest gets less activation, and just the triceps are used. Maybe that’s the reason Ronnie benches the way he does.[/quote]

No. When you bench press 200 pounds you are pushing in a straight line against gravity. At the top there is still 200 pounds of force coming down. 1" above your chest there is also 200lbs of force coming down (save for the utterly minute changes due the effect gravity has ~18" apart).

With a dumbell fly the path of the weight is not in a striaght line against gravity with relation to the pecs. During a dumbell fly the weight moves up AND in towards the middle of your body. There is no resistance when moving the weight towards the midline of your torso. This is why cables are so valuable for a variety of things. There is no loss in resistance across a wide range of planes of movement.

Im not talking about which muscles are being activated. Im talking about the actual load changing as the path of the weight changes.