T Nation

lower insulin levels post workout muscle sparing

OKay, that titile for the thread might be a bit misleading. What I mean is that, not immediately post-w/o, but rather in the hours following a workout.

I, like many follow the massive eating protocol, but I also can’t ignore the lower-carb diets that Poliquin and Alessi follow and prescribe for their atheles. I realize that ‘massive eating’ is a very much a mass-gaining diet and the coaches are training atheletes who have concerns other that just size, but Poliquin and Alessi are still pretty huge and Poliquin trains a lot of Hockey players, which for the most part fairly big dudes, so depite ‘lower’ carbs they retain a fair bit of mass.

So, the questions I pose to the forum are this,

1)since we know that lowered carbs switch the body to lipolysis and spare muscle tissue, would the elevated insulin levels from massive eating 6 hours post workout end up creating a ‘fat-sparing’ environment and decrease the ‘muscle-sparing’ environment of lower carbs?

2)Also, would it pose health risks over the long term (the higher insulin levels, that is)or would the increased glucose and insulin sensitivity of muscle from weight training balance things out?

One thing I think you need to consider is that alot of Poliquins athletes are extremely genetically gifetd, also alot of the use roids, and I believe he targets their diets based on the athletes needs. If an athlete responds better to a lower amount of carbs he gives them that, if they need mor ecarbs he gives them that. Did he ever say that all his athletes use low carb diets. I don;t remember hearing this.
Also if your main goal is hypertrophy than a little fat gain is bound to come with the muscle gain experinced from a hypercaloric diet. This is a reality, even while using Mag 10(although to a much lesser degree) this is why people go through bulking and cutting phases.
Post workout is the best time to ingest carbs, also the “anabolic window of opportunity” can last up to 36 hours after your workout so 6 hours shouldn;t be a big deal. Many experts(berardi etc) have recommended consuming a High GI carb and protein meal another couple hours after your PW meal, because of the anabolic window.
:slight_smile: Groove

  1. A ketogenic diet is muscle sparing for individuals at higher body fat levels, but it doesn’t seem to provide this benefit with leaner individuals. Lyle McDonald has talked about this.

  2. Your body is longing for an insulin surge post workout as it is ready to suck up nutrients asap. In no way is this comparable to high levels of insulin for the sedentary individual when the body is basically at rest.

Thanks, Joel. That one of the things I was wondering about - If you are active then those carbs will be taken up by muscle tissue rather than stored as fat and creating a lipogenic environment.

I guess I’m just unsure of how much carb an active individual can take in before you stop being a fat burning machine, and start storing fat. I realize of course everyone has there different level, but to recap, you’re saying that eating 2 meals up to six hours post workout consisting of P+C after post workout drink still wouldn’t cause lipogenesis?

It depends on many factors including how many carbs you are consuming, what type of training you did, how long the training session lasted, etc. Anytime you are on a hypercaloric diet, you can expect some of those calories to be stored as fat, but that’s practically a must (to have a slightly excessive caloric intake) to fully maximize gains from your training. But once you learn what the proper amount of carbs post workout is (for you) to promote the least amount of lipogenesis without compromising your gains, you’re in the ball game. That is all about trial and error and learning about your body; it takes time.

Joel