Lower Back Pain is Intense

Sorry everyone, didn’t mean to start a conflict. Everyone just relax, life is very short


You didn’t. I did. You are right. It is short and each year feels even shorter the longer you live since the experiential time interval scales as 1/x where x is elapsed years. Keep up the good work!

i definetly have more yesterdays than tomorrows :slight_smile:

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Dial in that TRT and get the hell off the forum :laughing:. Hard to sort through the BS from the gold.

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i already thought that, to be honest, sometimes i wonder how much of this stuff is money makers, not saying there is not legitimate trt but i know human nature.

You will find plenty of that right here. 1500 to 2000 ng/dl “TRT”. What will they think of next?

Buyer beware.

The fact that you as a grown man have issues that you feel the urge to obsess so obviously about what i say gives me a real homo vibe. Not that its bad if you like me or smth like that, its just that where i come from men dont care much for other men. Discussion is one thing but most of your comments are not adding to a discussion but just commenting me. You dont offer advice to people, you dont give them anything else besides the fact that you want to stick your reply to everything i say. Its very weird. Id do it to some girl i like, so she would notice that i read everything she posts.

I offer plenty of advice on here. Just pointing out the way you speak to ppl. Maybe if you hear it from enough members you may make a change for the better :+1:t2: Seems it’s not just me who notices it about you pal.

Inject in deltoid


for gods sakes man. 90% or more of the men here taking TRT are on a dose double the size.You are telling me that is not a normal healhty dose for trt? are you a shill or what?

do a poll and then watch what the results show. are you going to call the majority of men abusers of T?

I covered that here for the cash clinic model:

For guys that want to run TRT+/TOT, no judgment. I just don’t want newbies to think that 50-100 mg/week range of Test Cyp (75 mg/week median) is anything other than a reasonable starting protocol for true TRT.

Feel free to enjoy and educate yourself here:

Yep you got me. I am a shill for facts, details, science, charts, and dumb s**t like that.

Go ask all the guys like the OP @cyates and @Gibbon and many others how they loved the supraphysiologic T ride. I will repeat again for you @enackersgreat if you can get away with it but don’t claim it is anything other than lifestyle drug regimen bordering on abuse in some circles. Hang out with more intelligent and literate people who don’t worship at the altar of cult leaders.

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You are basing this on your personal experience.

The ranges for men was well above current ranges, yet you don’t open your eyes and realize that you are keeping ranges well below for TRT.

Since when was 20 unhealthy? The ranges for men on total used to be up in the 1500’s and free t well above todays range. Now its 30-50% lower and you are totally ok with following those ranges.

Why would anyone want to start TRT and keep themselves relegated to low T ??? If i am going to take TrT and stop my production, why wouldnt i take full advantage.

Its like buying a ferrari and saying “i will never berak the speed limit” and “lets deactivate 6 cylinders to match the rest of the cars out their in the world”.

There is something very wrong with this logic here. You have some sort of hidden agenda. Maybe you are a woman who hates men becuase T = toxic mascunlitiy?

What about my father and brother. My day is literally sitting at 75 or 76 years old. I cannot recall. But his Free T was at 15 last i checked. His symptoms are that of Low t when discussed, but his free t is 15. On the flipside, my twin brother recently found his free t is 16.

So now is my father having high T levels, regardless of his symptoms? What about my brother? His levels match that of a 70 year old. If he takes more than 100mg he will break 20’s and now that is abuse?

This is symptom resolution. When you take a dose of TRT and symptoms resolve, you are not doing anything but that. resolving symotms.

If it takes me 25 free t or even 30 free t, and i finally feel healthy. Doesnt matter what dose im taking, as long as my labs, and symptoms have resolved.

The way you and team are pursuing trt forces folks to find other alternatives to their symptom relief. They take 100mg, and they dont feel great? They think they should now go try a bunch of other things like Ai or daily dosing and blach blah blah.

We are men and we need T. You are literally pussy footing around a hormone that makes us who we are.

How do you know men used to be 1500? My dad was a WW2 vet and as far as I know he never had his levels checked, where is the data that says that


I dont recall where ive seen it, but i remember seeing a study made in the 70s where as an average, healthy adult men had around 600 to 700 total T. I wish i could find it. That doesnt mean those figures are right for an individual , but could , eventually, be guidelines. Was it in this fórum ?

There is a thread for that too…

Cliffs notes: BS claim. There are no data prior to this time frame since widespread commercial sex hormone testing (RIA methods) didn’t exist before late 1960s.


There are old articles showing it, studies showing it, and men who have been on T for over a decade. Even Dr. Keith nichols recalls lab ranges from back in the day,

All of you new folks dont realize that just 3 years ago the levels were in the 1300’s and now there in the 900 and 1100’s.

Free t was 25/26 i think when i started, and now its lower.

it just keeps lowering.

1500, 1300, etc. etc.


As shown above I will concede the drop from 1197 to 916 based on CDC standardization process. Hence, I use 1200 as upper limit as has been consistent for majority of RIA tests since mid 1970s.


1300, 1500, 10 000 in the old days just isn’t supported by the data we have available.

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@enackers for your enjoyment:

Care to sort through the harmonization process and calibration between TT assays over the last 50 years for the guys here?


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This change in the reference range has nothing to do with the generational decline in testosterone, these are two separate issues.