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Low WBC and Low Test/Thyroid Issues


#1

Are these related or is the low WBC Because of the lowered Testosterone and Thyroid?

I've been tested twice now for low WBC, doctor wants me to re-test in 4-6 weeks for CBC's and then most likely a Bone Marrow Biopsy is it comes back low again.

I've hard low testosterone for the last 3-4 years. Age 28.

I can post up numbers, but more interested in the low WBC right now.

I just got Free t3, and free t4 for the first time.

6 months ago my TSH was 4.00 (just finished dieting).

Now were at:

TSH: 2.50 (0.20-4.00) mU/L
FT4: 16.4 (9-23) pmol/L
FT3: 4.8 (3.5-6.5) pmol/L

I've read all the stickies and went pretty indepth with PM's to KSman (thanks for that BTW), so I'm just curious about the WBC thing.


#2

chronic infection can cause low white blood cells and the stress of chronic infection can negatively effect other hormones. I would look more into immune defiencys. Do you have any symptoms, fatigue, insomnia aches and pains etc.

cheers!!!


#3

Agreed. Is there a list of blood tests to figure out if I got chronic infections? If I'm still low after the 6 weeks I'll be refered to a specialist. I'm sure he'd know which tests to run but if I can get them run earlier it'd be better for me.

Specifically my neuts are under range with lymphs getting close to under range.

Thanks for the reply.

Edit: Symptoms are few. Mostly fatigue and joint pains. Both of those could be completely unrelated ... Or not? Cheers


#4

lymphocyte sub set test(immune test), then the herpes viruses- ebv(mono), cmv, hhv6 which can cause chronic illness, if possible get titre values measured as they say IgG antibodies is just evidence of past infections which isnt correct as these antibodies can be elevated if reactivated plus what ever other infections your doctor may think of. While in this state i would be very laid back and maybe have a few weeks break from working out, the extra stress from training can push u over the edge and make it very hard to recover from and turn it into a never ending illness, ive been there and its not fun.

cheers!!!


#5

Thanks for that. I just finished deload week in the gym and about to ramp up again. I'm also going to start a new supplementation protocol based on the research I've done.

Desiccated liver for the B vits
Liver support with added garlic
Lots of EGCG
High dose fish oil
Superfood+ additional fruits and veg
L-theanen
AOR essential mix multi vits daily.

See if I can bring them up a bit. I'll run that list by my doc.

Gonna try


#6

if u have a chronic viral thing going on i would leave the gym alone for awhile until u get further test results, honestly. U want lose much in the way of gains, muscle memory does exist. and if u have mono a doc will tell u no heavy lifting as theres a risk of rupturing your spleen, i would see your doc and mention this to him and see what he says, he may run more tests on u, google ebv/mono ruptured spleen, scarey stuff.


#7

Indeed. I will put a hold on training. The worst thing is work - I have night shifts and obviously they're not helping the cause.


#8

Night shifts yuk!! Been doing them for 20 years and definately have contributed to me feeling like crap, now i just work a day and arvo shift and thats made a big difference, but would like to dirch the arvo shifts too but dont think thats going to happen soon, lol

look after yourself dude,
cheers!!


#9

Low pregnenolone or DHEA is associated with a weak immune system.


#10

hi have those, low preg and dhea. Preg is definately helping me with antivirals and an immunostimulant cycloferron.

cheers!!!


#11

Just an update:

Saw an Internist today (Not a hemotologist) but a specialist all the same.

Got a couple tests coming up:

I'm on a recuring (every 3 weeks) CBC, Testosterone, Am Cortisol, and DHEA-S blood draw to be sent to my GP for us to look at.

Got a Bone marrow biopsy and Aspirate coming up as well, Decided not to be put under for it to avoid sides of that. Should just a local and then the needles for aspirate and biopsy. looking forward to it /sarcasm.

Regardless I might have a few more pieces to my puzzle soon, Doctor is sort of willing to work with me and is entertaining the topic that my Low Testosterone and or Thryoid might be the cause.

But he also told me to "eat" normally because I need all the nutrients from the food. Even gluten and sugars lol.. Classic Doctors.

Anyway onward will keep updated since this is Hormonal and blood related.

Out.


#12

Just wanted to update.

Went through with the Bone Marrow Aspirate and Biopsy.

The Peripheral smear came back good, no abnormalities but with manual counted slight neutropenia. The core sample from the biopsy also came back normal, or no abnormalities seen.

So now We've ruled out: Bone marrow disease, Leukemia, Hepatitis, STD's including HIV, Thyroid.

Been off of all supps for 1.5 weeks now and during my BM biopsy got blood drawn for a CBC. Came back exactly the same as previous (3.4 WBC, with Neuts at 1.7 <1.8-7.5>).

I got another blood draw yesterday (2.5 weeks off of all supps) for: CBC, total free testosterone, AM cortisol, and DHEA-S.

Will find out info next week when I visit my GP for results.

Basically I'm grinding it down to a hormonal issue. Only thing I want to get check is Reverse FT3, but I don't know if he'll check that. Seeing what my morning cortisol will be might rule that any RT3 pooling anyway. Last salivary cortisol tests I had came back good. High in AM, and big drop midday to finally low at bed time which is the curve you want to see for healthy adrenals i believe.

Couldn't convince the Doctor to put Pregnenolone on the blood tests.

Question for Danny880 - Does your added Preg effect your Estradiol at all? My estradiol is 'decent' right now at 27-28, but fear it would jump if I supplemented with Preg or DHEA. I had gyno during puberty that stuck with me. I had a real spike during puberty, got hairy and put on good size/strength - but the Testosterone left during my 20's.

Onward.


#13

I didn't see where your doc tested for the thyroid antibodies to rule out hashimotos and other thyroid disorders. was that done?

you have high TSH and high Free T3. The only time I recall seeing or hearing about that is with Hashimotos or with high Reverse T3 issues.

what about ferritin levels? low ferritin can cause hypothyroid symptoms with high FT3.


#14

No other thyroid tests run yet. I'll talk to my GP and see if he'll run those.

As for the ferritin I'll sneak that in too.

Is my Ft3 high you figure?

I read up on Hasimoto's and it also says bouts of hyperthyroidism. I've never had that for sure.


#15

sorry, I was going off FT3 of pg/ml ranges. hasimotos 'can' have bouts of hyper, everyone is different.

but the antibody tests should be standard protocol. ignoring those is a red flag for the doctors knowledge of thyroid issues.


#16

Update:

Tests Taken April 4, AM (9am)

WBC: 4.9 NORMAL lol (4-11)

Testosterone total 16.3nmol/L (ref 10.3-29.5)

Waiting on Free T

DHEAS: 13.7umol/L (<17.5)

Am cortisol: 584 nmol/L (120-620) - Happy about this one, I try to take care of my adrenals as much as possible working nights and all that.

That's it for now. Seems I had a bounce back up which is very ... Strange.

Test is up as well, see what free T does.

I got two more bouts of tests (every three weeks) to go. So If I stay up i guess I can blame it on a few things..

1) I've been off of ALL supplements, including Vit D etc. Could have been something I was taking. I also got some 2008 tests back that the doctor found on our Health care network. My WBC was very normal at 6.3 (4-11). I was taking supps then. But my Test was real low. Weird.

2) I've been eating more - Normally. The only catch is I have been Intermittant fasting. It seems the fasting helps me with Insulin sensitivity and I can get away with eating Carbs daily and a decent calorie total. Around 2700.

3) I've Reduced training to x3 wk and very limited cardio. Was I overtrained with x4/wk sessions? Possible.

I'll keep updating, see what the Specialist has to say May 11th.


#17

Hey Guys,

Second blood work in a row with normal WBC!

For no reason It seems I had Idiopathic Neutropenia. However something to note, I've been off of ALL supplements during these tests, 6 weeks or so.

Something else to note, my Free T is to goddamn low vs. my Total T.

April 4th Draw: Total T - 16.3nmol/L (10.3-29.5)
Free T - 42.5pmol/L (30-130)

Anyway.. I got Results from an April 29th Draw, but I'm still awaiting Free T from that.

Something interesting, on the second blood draw My total Testosterone crashed to 11.6nmol/L (10.3-29.5). Before this test I had only slept 4 hours, and came off of a night shift.

Cortisol was higher, infact above normal 635 (120-620), and DHEA-S was lower as well.

That is a perfect example of cortisol vs Testosterone ratio and why Cortsiol NEEDS to be lower, but not to low.

Just thought I'd share.

One more thing, I talked to my Doctor about TRT (again) and he 'spilled' some information that I didn't know about him. He has 4 TRT patients, At least 2 get shots, and he Treats them on SYMPTOMS primary, and numbers secondary. This is fantastic!

He even mentioned the possibility of me going on TRT based off of symptoms alone and not numbers, this could be the holy grail. My Free T has been so low for so long I don't remember what it feels like to be in the upper range hahah.


#18

what about the thyroid antibody tests you were going to request?

have you ever tested for SHBG or Estradiol levels? your Estradiol could be high which would drive up your SHBG levels which would decrease your Free T. If so, then controlling your Estradiol could have a positive impact on your Free T.


#19

He refused the antibodies test for now, however He have me a blood script fro Ferritin and B12 to get those out of the way.

I've done Estradiol before, it was 27 so fairly close to ideal (22).

It may be out to lunch now, since that was 1.5 years ago.

SHBG levels might be the next thing I want to get checked. If TRT goes through I won't proceed without the Doctor agreeing to a full panel with every test I can think of, or else I'll get it out of pocket.

Thanks for the response.


#20

Update time!

I had one more set of basic blood work done for WBC's, Total test and free test.

Well tada.. My Free test came back 27.9 (30-130).

Anyway this is my first "low" and my GP actually didn't mind it to much.

He actually said if you want we can start you on Injections, Once/wk.

So there we go. Now I just gotta make this life long Decision.

Question: I've yet to ask him if he does Estrogen Management but if he says no do I:

A) Take the initial script and then Doctor shop?

B) Self medicate with research grade drops.

Cheers.