T Nation

Low Testosterone Cause - 20 yrs

My old thread seemed to have died so I’ll start afresh with labs I have just received.

These two were done about a month before the others:

Bio-T - 89 ng/dl (83 - 257)
E2 - 29 (20 - 30)

Unfortunately I was taking anastrozole at the time (0.7 mg or so) and it didn’t occur to me that it might be a good idea to get baseline levels without any exogenous hormones, as it where, in my system.

I then went to a GP who wanted to put me on anti-depressants due to the following symptoms:

Fatigue
Low Mood/reduced self-esteem
Inability to gain muscle
Aching/painful testes
Brain fog (keep searching for words and not being able to find the right ones - ironically, it’s happening there)
Poor sleep quality
Increasing social withdrawal

I basically managed to squeeze the following tests out of him:

LH - 6.7 IU/L (1.7 - 8.6)
FSH - 5.2 IU/L (1.5 - 12.4)
Prolactin - 131 mUI/L (86 - 324)
Testosterone - 370 ng/dl
Free T - 8.2 (9 - 30)
SHGB - 28 nmol/l (20-40)
TSH - 3.36 mIU/L (0.51-4.3)
Free T4 - 15.58 pmol/l (12.6-21)
CRP - 6 (<5)
Potassium - 3.5 (2.4 - 5.1)
Sodium - 144 (136 - 145)

Neutrophil - 1.5 x10^9/l (2.0-7.5)
Lymphocyte - 1.3 x10^9/l (1.5 - 4)
Fasting glucose - 4.4 nmol/l (2.8 - 6)

I know TSH is high and T4 is a little low so will start supplementing with iodine before retesting in a month or so. Could the thyroid be the root of the low T? I am in the process of testing cortisol (4 point) and serum DHEA-S too. I have a lot of body hair and I believe KSman suggested this may mean my T-levels were once high meaning the drop hit me hard?

The aching/painful testes also worry me, no lumps on the testes but in terms of size and any other lumps this has been going on so long (2+ yrs) that I wouldn’t be able to identify what’s normal and what’s not anymore. Thanks.

Why were you taking anastrozole initially (it is not a hormone, by the way)? Were you taking 0.7 mg/day or week? Why was E2 not tested the second time?

[quote]pcdude wrote:
Why were you taking anastrozole initially (it is not a hormone, by the way)? Were you taking 0.7 mg/day or week? Why was E2 not tested the second time?[/quote]

I know it’s not a hormone but it’s actions influence them, worded badly, sorry. I was having issues with training (lack of progress, poor quality), someone I trust and who is very knowledgable about this area in particular suggested I try it. /week. Not sure if you are UK based, if you are I’m sure you’ll appreciate how hard it is to get GPs to do anything, it was hard enough to get him to the the other tests, E2 = no chance. Same with cortisol, DHEA-S and IGF-1.

You should be able to get E2 tested as part of determining why T levels are low. Can you get the tests if you pay for them?

While your first labs indicated that elevated E2 might be repressing your T levels, the second test does not have bio-T and does not help indicate if anastrozole has helped. But your T levels are still tanked. Your LH/FSH levels with the low FT suggest that your testes are the weak link. Testes often ache from low LH levels. Your LH level is not low. That does not fit. LH levels vary from hour to hour. FSH is a better indicator of such things as it has a longer half-life.

What are your cholesterol levels?

CRP indicates inflammation. This can be from gum disease, arterial disease [endothelial dysfunction] or some other inflammatory condition.

Did your old thread have age, weight, etc? You could have bumped it with this data.

[quote]KSman wrote:
You should be able to get E2 tested as part of determining why T levels are low. Can you get the tests if you pay for them?

While your first labs indicated that elevated E2 might be repressing your T levels, the second test does not have bio-T and does not help indicate if anastrozole has helped. But your T levels are still tanked. Your LH/FSH levels with the low FT suggest that your testes are the weak link. Testes often ache from low LH levels. Your LH level is not low. That does not fit. LH levels vary from hour to hour. FSH is a better indicator of such things as it has a longer half-life.

What are your cholesterol levels?

CRP indicates inflammation. This can be from gum disease, arterial disease [endothelial dysfunction] or some other inflammatory condition.

Did your old thread have age, weight, etc? You could have bumped it with this data.

[/quote]

Sorry, you’re right I should have added this information to the old thread, just thought a new thread may be neater. I’m 6 ft, about 193 lbs and I am 20 years old.

The problem was that the GP didn’t believe T levels to be low, don’t know how I got him to order LH etc to be honest. I can get them yes but they are very expensive and I’m a student so have limited funds. Would cortisol, DHEA-S and cholesterol tests be a wise investment in your opinion?

Would I be right in thinking FSH levels are low-normal and that this may be a contributing factor?

Cholesterol levels weren’t tested.

CRP did confuse me somewhat, don’t believe training would have a CK-like effect on it so I’m stumped. Along with the neutrophil and lymphocyte being low especially as if I was ill I would’ve expected these to be high. I may have been drinking the evening before that particular test (the others were on a different day). I should add I rarely drink (4/5 times /year).

My current plan was to pay for a set of bloods in about a month after implementing supplementation with iodine and supplements like taurine, D Aspartic Acid, ginger etc linked in the literature to T increases. I think I’ll also add more zinc and magnesium too. Would DHEA supplements be a waste of time without first knowing serum DHEA-S levels?

Appreciate your help.

You can get tested here, if not in NY state: http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLC322582/Male-Panel-Blood-Test.html

Cheaper to get a membership then get the member’s price. This can be way cheaper than what doc’s charge.

TSH really looks like it is a major issue. Check waking body temps.

[quote]KSman wrote:
You can get tested here, if not in NY state: http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLC322582/Male-Panel-Blood-Test.html

Cheaper to get a membership then get the member’s price. This can be way cheaper than what doc’s charge.

TSH really looks like it is a major issue. Check waking body temps.[/quote]

Yea I’m actually UK based but have labs I have used before, thanks. I will try some supplementation and retest in a few weeks, then update. Thanks.

You should NOT be seeing a GP for this matter. They are not specialists. I strongly advise seeing a urologist that deals with hypogonadism, preferably one with a fellowship in andrology - like the guy I go to, who regularly keeps me at 700 to 1000 ng/dl and has me feeling good for the past 8 yrs.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
You should NOT be seeing a GP for this matter. They are not specialists. I strongly advise seeing a urologist that deals with hypogonadism, preferably one with a fellowship in andrology - like the guy I go to, who regularly keeps me at 700 to 1000 ng/dl and has me feeling good for the past 8 yrs. [/quote]

That’s the plan as soon as I have the money to pay for private healthcare. On the NHS you can’t see a specialist without a referral from a GP first.

Okay weird first post to this forum… based on the TSH and FT4 tests I suspect you are Hypothyroid. Hypothyroidism and low T levels often go hand in hand for men. You need a FREE T3 test to confirm. I bet your FREET3 levels come back either below range or just at bottom of range.

And what you REALLY need is a new doctor.

Also do NOT supp with iodine unless you are tested as iodine deficient.

Sorry for the double post… I’d also want to test for TPO Antibodies to see if your hypothyroidism is Hashimotos.

if you have Hashi’s you will REALLY screw yourself up with iodine. Don’t do it.

Do supplement with iodine if you have not been using any iodized salt. The point is that one needs to have a dietary intake of iodine. If one has not had a proper dietary source of iodine, then one also needs to take larger amounts to build iodine stores, then be on a maintenance amount.

Why the warning? People who eat seaweed or kelp dropping dead in the streets?

If one has an iodine deficiency and goes to a doc with thyroid problems, they will may be put on a thyroid drugs and not told about dietary iodine needs. Doctors can make a dietary issue into a disease.

Google hypothyroid and iodine. Google hashimotos and iodine. Of course many many people are iodine defficient. I personally am severely iodine deficient. Which I know by having my iodine levels tested. Iodine supplementation is not dangerous for non hypothyroid people (unless taken to the extreme). If someone IS hypo (Hashis or not) supplmeneting with Iodine (unless tested deficient) can compound their problems. Assuming a deficiency is never a good idea.

The warning is based on my opinion that this person is in fact hypothyroid. Non-Hypo people I wouldn’t bother to warn. OP obviously has endocrine and hormone problems. Randomly supplementing will not help him. He needs proper testing, proper diagnosis, and proper doctor.

(just trying to help)

I have never used iodized salt so I will try supplementing with that and tyrosine. If I do have hashimoto’s then I’m under the impression and will rapidly become aware of it and can subsequently discontinue usage. I agree I need a new GP but believe experimenting with dietary changes for a short time is worth trying before I smash my head against a metaphorical brick wall by seeing another GP on the NHS. Thanks for the help.

Track your waking body temp and if low and then improves, the iodine may be helping. 97F or lower is a problem, 97.8 has been stated to be good. Mid range T4 would be 16.8 [based on your ranges] your 15.6 does not appear to be a problem. We do not have T3 data. If waking body temps are lower, T3 is low or might be blocked by rT3.

In any case, your higher TSH level suggests that something is not right. It is possible that TSH is high as a compensation for low iodine levels. If so, increasing your dietary intake of iodine would bring down your TSH level. Does your thyroid feel or look thick? Does your doc palpate your thyroid gland?

Your T3 may or may not be low, evaluate with waking body temp.
Your elevated TSH may be compensation for low iodine intake. This can have its own negative effects.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Track your waking body temp and if low and then improves, the iodine may be helping. 97F or lower is a problem, 97.8 has been stated to be good. Mid range T4 would be 16.8 [based on your ranges] your 15.6 does not appear to be a problem. We do not have T3 data. If waking body temps are lower, T3 is low or might be blocked by rT3.

In any case, your higher TSH level suggests that something is not right. It is possible that TSH is high as a compensation for low iodine levels. If so, increasing your dietary intake of iodine would bring down your TSH level. Does your thyroid feel or look thick? Does your doc palpate your thyroid gland?

Your T3 may or may not be low, evaluate with waking body temp.
Your elevated TSH may be compensation for low iodine intake. This can have its own negative effects.[/quote]

GP never physically examined me, funnily enough I was told he would have failed his medical finals because of this. Yea, I will evaluate body temp and see if iodine helps then when I retest I will include a full thyroid panel (-rT3 as it’s expensive). If T3 is an issue I will then test rT3 too. Thanks KS.

Supplementing with iodized salt shouldnt cause any problems. I’m sorry I didn’t know thats all the supplementing you were talking about.

Interested in the results of your FT3 test. HOPE you don’t have RT3 issues as I can only imagine how hard it would be to get that properly treated in the UK. Its my understanding thyroid treatment is pretty rough there (read that as dinosaur era).

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Mate I feel your pain… I am basically in the same boat as you, went to my GP and guess what? When I told her the about how I feel [always tired, cannot sleep well at night, cold feet, low sex drive, mild depression etc) and asked for a full adrenal panel she told I have read too much on the Internet and I should give St John Wort a shot… I am off to Poland 2morra where I will get a thorough panel of tests in a private clinic.

I really recommend l-tyrosine, it has helped me tremendously (for the time being till you get tested by an endocrinologist)

[quote]KSman wrote:
You can get tested here, if not in NY state: http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLC322582/Male-Panel-Blood-Test.html

Cheaper to get a membership then get the member’s price. This can be way cheaper than what doc’s charge.

TSH really looks like it is a major issue. Check waking body temps.[/quote]

Anyone know if a Canadian can pay out of pocket using the above?

For that matter, can someone for the love of god tell me where a dude from Toronto can go to pay for blood tests he wants done without a need for a physician’s orders?

I had a list of tests totalling near a thousand dollars that I wanted from PrivateMDLabs to get a complete baseline picture of my endocrine system, only to find out the lab in Buffalo I was going to go to can’t do it due to state billing laws.

Please tell me I have a better option than driving to PA. I don’t like your country to begin with :slight_smile: kidding, folks, lol.

Edit - sorry to hijack, and to anyone who was curious, no, a Canadian can’t pay for bloodwork anywhere on the planet it seems.