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Low Testosterone After Using Ostarine

Hi,
I have a bit of a situation, that will need a bit of intro first, also I am new to forums. I am just an average gym goer who has done a lot of different sports all his life and just crazy about trainign in general. Here it is:
Last year in February I had a knee operation to repair a torn meniscus in my left knee. That was followed by 6 weeks in crutches and 6 months of not doing any crazy stuff. 2 months before June I decided to take something that will promote better healing. I didn’t want anything hardcore as 2 years ago I had a hip surgery for torn labrum and was using Test E for 2 months and ended up with some symptoms of gyno so went to the doc and he gave me some tamoxifen and anastrozole which helped and I was back to normal. My hip pretty good . I was also given wrong advice on PCT as well but that is a different story. This time I was looking for something that doesn’t have those side effects and ended up taking crazy bulk I took some HGH-X2 , testo-max, decaduro. I felt some small improvement, I was using this for 2 months. Then I came across Ostarine. I started using ostarine and that’s when everything went down the toilet. So in June I started ostarine, and prior to that I was using crazy bulk for 2 months, first day took 1/5 of the dose, I think dose was 1ml. just to see what effect it has. I was ok, nxt day I took 1/4, and the 3rd day I took 1/2 and that is when I started feeling really bad , sore nipples, low energy, really feeling crap. So I stopped and went to the emergency next morning. My blood pressure was 170 they told me to sleep it off. So next day I went to gp and asked for blood test for testoterone , the test came back as 5.2nmol/L, my gp called the endocrynology and I was referred there. I knew that something needed to be done right there and then but for some reason I went with the flow. I was doing few more blood tests, until I saw the endocrinologist in August:
The result below have the name , the range , unit of measurment, and my result
Date 21-Jun-2018
Testoterone ( 8.7 - 29.0 ) (nmol/L) - my result 5.2
FSH( 2.0 - 12.0 ) IU/L - my result 4.6
LH IU/L ( 2.0 - 9.0 ) IU/L - my result
Date 26-Jul-18
Testoterone ( 8.7 - 29.0 ) (nmol/L) - my result 8.1
Prolactin ( < 240 ) mIU/L - my result 323
Date 21-Aug-18
Testoterone ( 8.7 - 29.0 ) (nmol/L) - my result 8.8
FSH( 2.0 - 12.0 ) IU/L - my result 8.7
LH IU/L ( 2.0 - 9.0 ) IU/L - my result 5.4
Oestradiol ( < 161 ) pmol/L - my result 80
Prolactin ( < 240 ) mIU/L - my result 406
Date 21-Sep-18
Testoterone ( 8.7 - 29.0 ) (nmol/L) - my result 6.6
FSH( 2.0 - 12.0 ) IU/L - my result 5.4
LH IU/L ( 2.0 - 9.0 ) IU/L - my result 2
Oestradiol ( < 161 ) pmol/L - my result 76
Prolactin ( < 240 ) mIU/L - my result 19
IGF-1 ( 106-293 ) ng/ml - my result 282
IGF-1 SD SCORE: +1.7
Date 11-Oct-2018
Testoterone ( 8.7 - 29.0 ) (nmol/L) - my result 5.4
FSH( 2.0 - 12.0 ) IU/L - my result 5.6
LH IU/L ( 2.0 - 9.0 ) IU/L - my result 2.7
Oestradiol ( < 161 ) pmol/L - my result 52
Prolactin ( < 240 ) mIU/L - my result 277
The endocrinologist was no help at this point. So I went to the doc that I saw two years ago, he put me on Tamoxifen 10mg tabs 1 a day, and 0.5mg of anestrzole 3 times a week. I was doing that for about 2 months I think so these are the bloods during that time:
Date 30-Oct-2018
Testoterone ( 8.7 - 29.0 ) (nmol/L) - my result 11.9
FSH( 2.0 - 12.0 ) IU/L - my result 9.6
LH IU/L ( 2.0 - 9.0 ) IU/L - my result 4.4
Oestradiol ( < 161 ) pmol/L - my result 50
Prolactin ( < 240 ) mIU/L - my result 277
Date 17-Nov-2018
Testoterone ( 8.7 - 29.0 ) (nmol/L) - my result 17
FSH( 2.0 - 12.0 ) IU/L - my result 10.4
LH IU/L ( 2.0 - 9.0 ) IU/L - my result 4
Oestradiol ( < 161 ) pmol/L - my result 70
Prolactin ( < 240 ) mIU/L - my result 297
At this point I started to feel some back pain almost like kidney pain so I stopped tamoxien and the few weeks later I stopped the anestrozole as my knees and hips started to hurt.
Date 22-Dec-2018
Testoterone ( 8.7 - 29.0 ) (nmol/L) - my result 9
FSH( 2.0 - 12.0 ) IU/L - my result 5.6
LH IU/L ( 2.0 - 9.0 ) IU/L - my result 3.8
Oestradiol ( < 161 ) pmol/L - my result 78
Prolactin ( < 240 ) mIU/L - my result 291
Date 02-Feb-2019
Testoterone ( 8.7 - 29.0 ) (nmol/L) - my result 5.4
FSH( 2.0 - 12.0 ) IU/L - my result 4.3
LH IU/L ( 2.0 - 9.0 ) IU/L - my result 1.7
Oestradiol ( < 161 ) pmol/L - my result 50
Cortisol (Morning Peak) 200 - 700 nmol/L - my result 491
IGF-1 ( 106-293 ) ng/ml - my result 273
IGF-1 SD SCORE: +1.9
Free T4 ( 10.0 - 20.0 ) pmol/L - my result 18
TSH ( 0.30 - 4.00 ) mIU/L - my result 1.8
So at this stage my gp suggesting trt. I wonder if there is anything else I can try to bring my testosterone levels back? My doc gave me another 30 pills of 10mg of tamoxifen, and 18 1mg tablets of anastrozole. When I was doing tamoxifen and anestrozole I felt really crap, my libido was gone, hot flashes, basically I didn’t have none of that 2 years ago when I was on Test E. I was able to train hard in the gym though, which was helping. So I would really appreciate any advice/help.

Your doctor thinks you’re a woman with breast cancer. So that’s troubling.

So you took a drug that suppresses testosterone production, it suppressed your testosterone production. So far that checks out.

Then you ran a sort of pct and you got better. Once you stopped the Nolva you returned to baseline test levels. Now you’re kind of at the lower end of the range. This continues to be straightforward.

Nowhere in the many words and numbers you wrote did you include your age, height, weight, body fat percentage, lifestyle, diet, sleep pattern, or anything else relevant.

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People actually fall for that crazy bulk, testomax shit?

What you need is time, not more drugs. I presume you don’t have any significant endocrine pathology, thus you could attempt to wait it out, chances are you’ll recover, you’re time on doesn’t appear to be extensive.

You do, however need to research what you’re taking more thoughouly before you take things.

Thanks. I was thinking to wait it out as well as my doc said he had a guy who waited 2 years before his levels came back. I am not sure what that guys history is but I think I should just wait. Yes I did fall for that crazy bulk stuff, I kind of knew that I wasn’t going to get any results but I thought I just give it a try and the Ostarine yes definitely need to be careful with that one. I did some research(obviously not enough) and there were some red flags as people had mixed results and not getting genuine stuff. But it is what is I learned my lesson the hard way. I am just not sure why my testosterone keeps falling like that it seems it shot up when I was on tamoxifen and anastrozole and then dropped again.

I am 36yo, 95kg, not sue abut body fat probably 15%, mostly sedentary at work,used to hit the gym 5 times a week now I am doing it 3 times working out in the morning this was all to see if I improve as the endocrinologist said that to much exercise can lower the levels not sure how true that is because back in the day I used to train twice a day and had good sex drive and everything my doc kinda said that endo didn’t know what she was talking about so I was stuck , diet is reasonably good I am trying to eat clean and try to enough protein carbs and fat, sleep pattern well I haven’t been good at that lately and I am trying to improve, I noticed that with my levels when I go to bed makes a huge difference

Can I also ask you what you exactly mentioned by things are straight forward?

Meaning the progression of things makes sense.

What are your thoughts on my low LH levels? As in shouldn’t it be higher considering that my test is low. Like my levels were pretty normal in the beginning apart from low test, and then dropped just before I did that pct. I remember almost feeling like something inside just gave up when my levels dropped initially after going up. Is it possible that something could be wrong with the feedback loop? I feel sometimes sensitive nipples it comes and goes and I have this fatigue, that also comes and goes. I feel in last few days that things have kind of progressed a little as I don’t feel my nipples as sensitive and not as often. I can still kill it in the gym no issues. Sometimes I wake up like 3 am after going to bed 11pm full of energy like I slept 8hours and then it takes me a while to fall a sleep. It’s not always like that. I know this is all because my hormones are out of balance but don’t understand why that low LH? I read some articles that suggest that glutamine and l-theanine can potentially help with the gaba b and feedback loop as increase the gaba b. Not sure if that would work.

Your situation is a mess. There’s a few ways to go here, but I genuinely don’t know which one is right for you. You could try HCG for a few weeks to get LH back up and running, but it’s also suppressive. So you’d have to do HCG and then run a pct after that, though it would not be the same protocol as an actual cycle pct. But the short answer is I don’t know what is right for you here. You may need to call on the big guns at this point and ask @physioLojik for his opinion. He’s smarter than the rest of us combined.

Thanks will do.

Also what is the best way to get hold of @physioLojik. I just replied to one of his threads I think it was Ask physioLojik or something like that. Not sure if that is the best way as it seems he is quite busy?

It’s none if my business but I would not run hcg. Hcg is essentially synthetic LH. I would go straight to clomid. It will drive your lh and fsh up triggering more testosterone. I’d run a mini pct with clomid. Wait and do more bloodwork to see where you fall.

Email him, his email is in his bio. He gives very good advice.

Just a question with my limited knowledge, would tamoxifen/nolvadex be ok to run instead of clohimd? Also from what I researched nolva and clohimd are the same to a degree but I could be wrong? So what sort of pct would I run after and what dosages? Also what dosages of tamoxifen/nolva, chlomid would I need to run? When i was running tamoxifen and anastrazole before , my libido was low worse when not running it. It only improved slightly at the end of the pct. I guess the real question if why the LH is low. Is it because hypotalamus is not sending enough gonadotropin to stimulate the pituary or is there something else, in form of the feed back loop not working correctly. Is it something with my testis, I wouldn’t think so as when I was on pct the testosterone was going up. Also I am not sure whith all the blood tests that I have done was my doc checking my hypotalamus.

Will do thanks

Yes. I do believe you can use nolvadex as well.

Nolva is pound for pound better, based on some data we have. Response rate for 150mg of Clomid was the same as Nolva at 20mg in a small sample of men (like, really small; maybe 10 guys). But the side effects are considerably less difficult.

I had a look at the company that produced the tamoxifen/nolvadex from my last batch and the new one and they are different. I saw on some forums this can make a difference, like with any other medicine. When I did the Test E cycle 3 years ago I used nolva and had no sides what so ever. So I am very tempted to run just nolva for 2 weeks 20mg a day from the new batch and see what happens. Worst case scenario I would just have to discontinue. Also could be because what ever was in that “ostarine” maybe was still in my system at the time of my last pct and was causing some unusual nolva behavior. I am also waiting on a reply from @physioLojik .