T Nation

Low Testerone and Young


#1

I have been having some issues lately for the past year regarding testerone
A little about me, I am a 20 year old college student and have been lifting since I was 16 mix of oly and bodybuilding. 5'10 180 lbs.
supplements I take 5000iu of d3
A multi
3 tabs of fish oil
Selenium and iodine just recently after testing morning temps at 97 degrees. Iodine is 2 drops of lugol solution. But regarding thyroid, my bulking calories for 0.5 lbs a week is 4000 and my activity other than lifting is studying could I be hypo with a high metabolism?
Also take 5g creatine
Got a few tests done via privatemdlabs and they had returned as follows

Testerone 344
FSH: 5.3
LH: 5.9
Estradiol: 30.2
(The only high note on my test was alkaline phosphate at 160 along with high lymphs, but I believe this was from mono when I had it)
Now, I ended up going to a urologist last summer so about June 2015, and he got me onto clomid with the following protocol

Week 1: 150mg
Week 2: 100mg
Week 3/4 : 50mg

Feel like this was a little high dosing and after reading around I probably should've just don't 25mg a day, but my test raised to 968 after this with no other bloods tested. They again dropped back down to ~330 in December and I was put on clomid again in Jan 2016 with the same protocol I have a follow up this coming Monday on the results.

Any insight would be excellent. I do not want to start TRT I am way to young, so finding an underlying problem will be first, maybe supplementing with iodine will fix everything. But other than that I was thinking about brining up long term clomid protocol with my uro on Monday.

Let me know your thoughts.


#2

Also the first protocol of clomid made me feel great this past protocol made me feel like crap and worse since I have been off.


#3

Some guys feel like crap on clomid, not rare! You can ask for Nolvadex and you will not have that issue. Doctors do not know about this.

Follow these links in 2nd post of 1st forum topic:
- advice for new guys
- things that damage your hormones
- TRT restart
- thyroid basics explained
- finding a TRT doc

Urologists simply are not a good choice. And may endocrinologists are bad.

Do these additional labs:
TSH
fT3
fT4
AM cortisol
prolactin
DHEA-S
CBC
total cholesterol [might be low]
fasting glucose
Please only light training for 5-7 days and no sore muscles for next two labs
AST
ALT

Your testes seem to be the problem.

E2 is way too high, can be from impaired liver clearance

High doses of SERMs will create very high E2 levels in many cases.
Your LH/FSH levels reported are quite good, jacking up LH/FSH with SERMs will not increase testicular response to LH/FSH.

Were labs reported above after/during SERM?


#4

I have these other numbers included from the privatemdlabs that you listed

Glucose: 81
AST: 33
ALT: 27

I will try to get the rest of the bloods if possible I will keep you updated on that part!
These labs that I am listing happened before I went to the uro for clomid, the only thing the uro gave me via blood tests were total testerone

I recently bought a probiotic thinking maybe my body is absorbing estrogen from poor digestion of food, flora/leaky gut. I believe the high lymphs and alkaline phosphate was from mono as I saw listed I rarely drink alcohol.

Along with the cholesterol section, if I eat plenty of eggs everyday will that affect my bloods being low? (Have 4 a day)

Thank you!


#5


#6

So after reading the TRT restart, and seeing that you think my testes could be the problem. Should during my next appointment ask for an hcg trial for a potential restart to see if my tested are in fact functioning. Because I do respond to clomid as already tested, so I'm guessing my other option is to try hcg correct?

Thank you


#7

Your testes seem to have enough LH/FSH and simply are not doing enough DHEA-->T.

You can try hCG, but suspect the results will not be huge. Maybe with larger amounts.
TT was rather low for that LH/FSH.

Trying nolvadex is an option and monitoring your LH/FSH response.


#8

I will try nolva and follow back up, I will also get bloods for thyroid and other test request. Also picked up some milk thistle for liver function, any other supps you would recommend for liver clearance that you had mentioned?


#9

AST/ALT were decent. Not sure what the liver clearance issue might be.

Did: - things that damage your hormones suggest anything to you?


#10

The only thing I could really see that could be applicable would be the adrenal fatigue I drink a lot of caffeine and a few restless nights but other than not nothing really, no damage to me internally, hit in the head, balls, etc.
would you recommended anything for the dhea to test to try


#11

So my test levels after clomid use came back at 220, this was exactly a week after my final 50 mg dose. Don't know why my test came lower as compared to the 900 I got with my previous clomid treatment. Any insights?


#12

Getting my thyroid panel tomorrow will update with results been taking iodine lugol 2% three drops a day + 200 mcg selenium


#13

Input on my thyroid labs

TSH: 3.3. (0.45-4.5)
T4f: 1.19 (0.93-1.6)
T3f: 3.4 (2.35-5)


#14

This was taken at around 10am when I had just woken up


#15

So you were doing 50mg clomid and stopped sudden without tapering out?

From earlier: "Were labs reported above after/during SERM?"

TSH is way too high. fT3 should support good body temperatures.
If body temps are low now, we can suspect that elevated rT3 could be blocking ft3.
See thyroid basics explained topic and refer to:
rT3
stress
adrenal fatigue

Labs that you could do:
rT3
DHEA-S
AM cortisol


#16

Nope, doc had me do the 150mg week one, 100 week two, and 50 for week three and four.

Body temps were low the past two weeks, but the past three days since since lugols my temp is at 97.6 (prev 97 and at lowest 96.8)


#17

The full lab report was from before serms, after serms were the single total testerone I had listed


#18

Your LH/FSH and T from before SERM showed that you have secondary hypogonadism and you cannot restart that. If DHEA-S was low, that could be a cause, but that is quite remote. If there is a vascular abnormality that can be surgically corrected that can work.

Your doc's use of clomid is stupid, looks like bro-science. Method doomed to failure.


#19

Going back to my recent thyroid labs, if I were not to test the rft3 you think my lack of iodine would be something to look at? Those labs are after a month of taking 3 drops of lugols 3% so I think it's like 6mg of iodine+ 200mcg of selenium My morning temps are still at or around 97.3. Could this be a sign of sub clinical hypothyroid? Should I up iodine to 12.5


#20

It may take more iodine to recover iodine stores. There are unknowns.

If iodine replenishment does not work, at least you know the problem is more than that.

Doctors see your temperatures as normal or subclinical hypothyroidism and then they most often do nothing. You have to advocate for your self.