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Low Test & LH After 7 Months Off AAS


I am strongly considing trt.

I have been using a lot of stuff during my bodybuilding life style. IE: Deca,test,dbol,winny,tren,hgh,adex/letro/nolva/clomid/t3 all there I have been cycling for a good 2 years. Started at 27. I always recovered fine but after adding deca into my cycle I have ran into serious problem with my overall health and HTPA. I have been off for a solid 7 months completely cold turkey and I have never recovered my 600ng plus natural test lvl's I had. I feel like shit and have no drive for anything.

Just wanted to give a brief outline of aas use. Any way on to blood work as today nov 21th 2010.

Cortisal pm 13.0 [2.5 12.5ug/dl]
DHEA S 438
LH 1.8 mIU/ml
FSH 3.1 mIU/ml
Estradiol 24.61 pg/ml
total test 268
free test 6.3

Also forgot to add my progesterone lvl's are 1.04 High

My doc does not want to start me on anything and wants to wait another six months.

I do not know If I can last that long because life is hell right now.

Any way any tips help suggestions would be of great help.



Have you attempted a HPTA restart with a SERM, hCG and/or Anastrozole based PCT?

A few are vulnerable to DECA. What T did you use with that?

You are estrogen dominant. A small dose of adex might be helpful. Perhaps around 0.25 mg per week in EOD divided doses. A liquid product would be needed.

Have you ever used a 5-alpha reductase hair loss drug?

Any hint of gyno?

Any blows to your head or whip lash?
Any reduction in peripheral vision?


Yes I did a total of two pct's during the seven month lay off and was able to get up to 400ng test levels. I used clomid/letro with hcg before finally crashing again.

Never used 5-alpha reductase.

I used test E and C.

Zero gyno issues.
No blows to the head.
No reductions in vision.

"You are estrogen dominant. A small dose of adex might be helpful. Perhaps around 0.25 mg per week in EOD divided doses. A liquid product would be needed. "

What do you mean by this and how can you tell?


Your E2 to testosterone ratio is only 10890 to 1. I have heard different ratios mentioned here, but the lowest I have read about as a good ratio is 15000 to 1. I would like to see my ratio at 30000 to 1 or better.
On a side note, I wonder if the t to e ratios would be more relative if they were tied to free T instead of total t?


and that means what exactly?


Lowering E2 a bit might nudge your HPTA in the right direction.

If you take a SERM and T levels improve, that means that the top end of the HPTA is somewhat functional. Less E2 should then be able to have a bit of that effect.

If your prolactin was up, that could be part of the problem.


my prolactin is 10.9

I thought 24.61 is low as is?


Yes, E2=24 is "favorable", but in the context of TRT with high normal T numbers. So your T:E ratio is not like that. We do not understand what is going on. A little push your HPTA in the right direction might be of some benefit, certainly not harmful. You need to understand the issues of anastrozole over-responders. Prolactin is not bad, most seem to be a bit lower.

The bottom line is that you are estrogen dominant and that can create a trap for the HPTA.

We often see guys with levels that low who are near E2=17, as they have little T to convert to E2.

I have seen other outcomes like this with deca, it changes how things work for a rare few. One guy did not have any idea what he was doing and did a deca only cycle with no PCT.


So your saying try another pct protocol?


No, suggesting that you try cruising with a lower E2 level that is more HPTA friendly.


hmm so try lowering estrogen with adex or aromasin?

How long and at what dosage?

or you use a lower dose of test to cruise?

I am sorry I am bit confused?


Suggesting a very low dose of adex only, no T, nothing else. Skip the aromasin.


Could you explain a bit more about how deca changes things? Reason I ask is i did two deca only cycles about 10 years ago..I recovered I thought fully from them but i am currently on TRT, and while I find it doubtfule that so far down the line it was the deca , it still interests me. Thanks.


Sounds like you were not affected by the deca. In rare cases, gene expression gets permanently changed. This also can happen with 5-alpha reductase inhibitors which reduce DHT and are used for hair loss. Some guys are fragile in that regard. Some guys loose T levels with no identifiable reason. Perhaps the misadventures with deca and the hair loss drugs sometimes simply bring forward an event that was likely to occur later.

There are testosterone like drugs, which I term xeno-testosterones which like all steroid hormones, including vit-D25, are transported to the nuclei of the cells where gene expression is altered. This can be increasing the expression of some genes and decreasing the expression of others. With these drugs, no one really knows exactly what is going. For those who react adversely, there really is not much known about what to do to reduce the damage. There are many bits of genetic code that are hidden and not exposed to be turned off or on by hormones. Differences in methalization from one person to another can have large effects so a gene hidden in one person is exposed in another. This is very complex and what I have described is very simplistic, but it helps one understand the concept.


Nandrolone is highly suppressive compared to other tests. Chances are your body just didn't recover. Your LH is somewhat low. Have you tried introducing TRT level doses of testosterone to see if you feel any better? It looks like that might be your best option right now considering this is what caused it and you are running 90 year old death bed levels.


Yea I started 125mg today of test e. See where it goes from here.

Will be monitoring myself with blood work.


I had a similar problem - always recovered well but 18 months ago failed to recover after a simple 6-week, 300mg/week test prop course. I ran 2-3 PCTs with SERMS and tried a low dose AI none instigated a recovery for me.

Eventually I went back and did an 8-week course of testosterone and ran a 'power pct' at the end of the course - this worked. It is now 6-months since PCT completed and I am well, no problems, excellent drive, libido etc. Needless to say my days of AAS use are over (42 years old).

The PCT I ran - 12 shots of hCG at 1500iu, every other day. This commenced 3 weeks after my last test E shot. On the same day I started hCG I began nolva at 20mg a day, this was run at this dose for 40 days and then tapered slowly over 3-4 weeks. I ran clomid for 28 days, 100mg a day for 7-days then at 50mg a day.

I understand the implications put forward on this board regarding high dose hCG BUT THIS WORKED FOR ME. Like you I was about to commence TRT so this was a last option - nothing to lose.

During the PCT I also ran high dose vitamin D, fish oils, D-aspartic acid. I ensured fat was high in diet, calories more than adequate and I cut back on training to total body work plus caridio at 3-sessions per week

I believe that the short testosterone course prior to my my pct aided recovery. It showed me I could function normally again if all else failed and my worse case scenario was a couple of injections per week and not a lifetime without sex drive and ED! This removed an enormous weight from my shoulders and I am sure that the stress and worry about recovery/life without testosterone can be a major factor in preventing recovery.


have you had blood work done?


Yes - only T no LH/FSH

I have readings prior to this cycle (about 2 yrs before) at 31nmol/L ( 10.5 - 33 nmol/l). Two readings since PCT at 29 and 33nmol/L and a single reading of 41 nmol/L ( but this was 6-weeks into an 8-week D-aspartic acid course).


Hey Ksman what do you think of my new blood results? Any thing you can pin point?

Ferritiin 354
psa 3rd gen 1.370 <4.0 ng/ml
test 231
test free 2.8
thyroxine,free(ft4) 1.45 (.93-1.7ng/ml)
TSH 3.9 (.27-4.2ng/ml)
25OH, VITAMIN D 30.4 (32-100ng/ml)