T Nation

Low Test, High E, and Dr Equal Drama


#1

-42
-6"4"
-46
-330
-Light body hair, no back hair, and can't grow a beard mustache. Growth on face is light.
-I carry my fat on my torso mainly. Even the Doctor says I don't look 330 lbs.

-health conditions: Stressed, Depressed, anxious, fearful, no desire (I should be working right now), overweight, and no sex drive. I also yawn all day long with major fatigue. Coffee has zero effect on me when I drink it. I could pound coffee and go to bed. I sleep very hard with no issues. When I do have sex I always lose my erection and the wife ends up going solo.
-Rx and OTC drugs: Only taking Testosterone as listed below. Take 10,000 iu of D every other day and a male multi vitamin.

-lab results with ranges: Some are listed below but my doctor deleted my full labs online so I am waiting for it again.
-describe diet: I figure to eat about 2200 calories a day. I always have Greek yogurt in the morning, a health bar for snack, lunch is typically left overs from dinners, and I don't eat fast food.
-describe training: I don't belong to a gym right now, so training is extinct.
-testes ache, ever, with a fever? NO

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: I might get morning wood twice a week, but nothing I could use to have sex with. I actually had a dream last night that my wife started having sex with someone else because I could not perform for her. Sad.


I have been reading these boards for a long time. And I finally signed up. Woot! Woot! Excited to be part of the T Nation family.

Here is my story. I will fast forward to how I got to this current day quickly.

I was skinny until 24. Like 6"4" tall, 195 solid muscle skinny. In 1 year I gained 100 lbs with no change to lifestyle. I was working, lifting, married and happy.

Doctors had no clue. I went up and down in weight for years. When I was 38 my doctor finally gave me pills, for the little mister that I could no longer get up to satisfy my wife. So they put me on pills, lots of them. Adderall, Nuvigil, Wellbutrin, and who knows what else. Hated them!

Finally asked for blood work. That's right, 40 years old an not one doctor did blood work on me to check my hormones. Bottom line, I was below the line on Testosterone. But, it was Kaiser and they would not treat me. This was 2 years ago.

Now I have Providence. They tested me and I was low.

7/01/2013
TESTOSTERONE FREE 40 / Range: 47 - 244 / pg/mL

Doctor put me on 1 1/2 ml of Testosterone every 2 weeks.
TESTOSTERONE CYPIONATE (DEPO-TESTOSTERONE)INJECTION

9/16/2013 - RE-TEST
TESTOSTERONE FREE 46 / Range: 47 - 244 / pg/mL

This is where I question doctor about Estrogen. The doctor thinks I am an idiot for asking.

Read this backwards


i will have it called in

----- Message -----
From: MATTHEW
Sent: 9/13/2013 14:04 PDT
To: MD
Subject: Non-Urgent Medical Question

I am sorry, I can come in and talk more with you. I just had surgery Wednesday for my facial cyst so it may be a few days. Whatever is going on with me is effecting my work and my life. I am only asking questions because I am desperate to find answers. I appreciate your help .

Do I need to drop by for my script or can it be called in for me?

Thank you,

----- Message -----
From: MD
Sent: 9/13/2013 7:58 PDT
To: Matthew
Subject: RE: Non-Urgent Medical Question

Get an estrogen test

You don't need appointment for new prescription

You need appointment if you want to discuss issues

I would suggest you not imply I don't take your care seriously. If you feel this way, you should seek another provider.

----- Message -----
From: MATTHEW
Sent: 9/12/2013 17:37 PDT
To: MD
Subject: Non-Urgent Medical Question

Do I have to come in?
How do I get my new prescription?
Don't both men and women have estrogen?
Are you saying that men cannot have high estrogen?
Is it false that high Estrogen in men can cause fatigue among other things?
Is it false that high Estrogen can lower testosterone levels?

Dr. Davis, I am concerned that you are not willing to test "ALL" my hormones other than testosterone. I take my health very seriously and Want to feel better.

I have more symptoms of high estrogen levels then I have of low testosterone levels, so this is why I have brought it up.

Thanks,
Matt

----- Message -----
From: MD
Sent: 9/11/2013 17:35 PDT
To: Matthew
Subject: RE: Non-Urgent Medical Question

I don't know why her other results are not showing on the e-mail
They were normal

Your testosterone is now one point below normal. This is well within the septa durable range of laboratories.
It clearly has improved.

However to clearly did in the normal range I would increase the dosage to 2-1/2 mL every 2 weeks

This should be rechecked in 6 weeks

When it is normal this would probably indicate that your cause of fatigue is not due to testosterone

You ask about estradiol. This would not affect testosterone levels.

----- Message -----
From: MATTHEW
Sent: 9/10/2013 21:12 PDT
To: MD
Subject: Non-Urgent Medical Question

Dr,

Two questions.

Where are all my test results? Everything but testosterone has been wiped off my profile.

Like I said in my last email I feel nothing on these shots. Why are my estroidal levels not being tested, especially if I am seeing zero improvement? I am asking simply based on my own research and that my new test is still below levels.

I am feeling very discouraged, but I want us to find the answer.

Thanks,


So the new tests came in. Surprise!!!!

TSH 0.94 / Range: 0.30 - 4.70 / uIU/mL

ESTRADIOL 51 / Range is : 0 - 357 / pg/mL / For MALE: 0-40 pg/mL

I should know soon what his stupid response is going to be.

Stay tuned.

Thanks for reading.

Matt


#2

Just a frustrated update.

Just saw doctor and he says my estrogen, and I quote "Is perfectly normal"

Really!!!!!

I feel horrible, fatigued, the wife dang near hates me, work sucks, and I have an idiot for a doctor.

Estrogen was 51. The range for men is 0 - 40.

So why is 51 "Normal"?

Frustrated!!!


#3

Yep , sounds like my dr . My E2 was 62 on same scale . I was having ED issues so I was concerned . My nipples also were sore . I needed a rx for an Aromatase Inhibitor to prevent conversion of testosterone into estrogen . He would not give it to me . I ended up going to Internet research chemicals sites to buy it . Also you need to split your dosage into multi small dose shots . One big shot causes more havoc and estrogen conversion then several small doses .

Try natural supplements like grape seed extract , DIM , zinc to help fight the conversion . Btw estrogen level needs to be in a happy window - not too low or too high . Don't change drs yet - he at least gives you flexibility to home inject T and rx you a good amount . Btw I am in process of finding another dr to deal with estrogen conversion and give me a real rx for an AI .


#4

Thanks! I am trying to be patient with him, but he is so vague and does not want to talk about anything outside of T therapy.

I do split my shots up. I can also try those other naturals. I know i have grape seed.

Also, didn't realize this, but he tested for FSH as well and the test just came back today. He did not say he was waiting for that, so that is odd. Nor did we talk about it at my appt on Wednesday.

FSH Tested at 0.3
The range is 1.5 - 33.4

The lab noted this range.
Male - 13-70 years: 1.4-18.1 mIU/mL

The one thing I can't find in my searches is this: Does taking Testosterone Shots lower FSH levels because of what it's doing? The doctor will take like a week to get back to me, so this could be a really long wait to get further answers.

My mind is lost, so please write if you find it. I can't think straight! It's fuzzy.


#5

I'm shocked! Super quick response from Doctor.

Still not happy with him.

Response from Doctor:

fsh should be low due to testosterone usage
Estrogen not high normal but normal

----- Message -----
From: MATTHEW
Sent: 9/27/2013 13:36 PDT
To: MD
Subject: Test Result Question

Dr D,

Can you explain what this test result means, and how it relates to my low Testosterone, and my higher Estrogen levels? My FSH is close to zero.

Thank you,

Matt