T Nation

Low Test at 25. Need Help


#1

Hi! Firstly I would like to introduce myself.
Current Stats:
I am 25 year old male.
Height : 5’11”
Weight : 69kgs.

Cycle history : April 2014 (only cycle till date)
Test E 500 split every week for 12 weeks
Dianabol – 30mg for 4 weeks
Anavar – low dosage for week 9-12
HCG – 500mg split every week from week 6-12
Arimidex – 0.25 mg eod from week 1-14
Nolvadex – 40/20/20/20
Clomid – 75/50/50/50
Gains : I gained around 8 kgs (reached 78 kgs) and managed to keep 70% of total gain. After this cycle I went to study overseas and never did another cycle in these 2 years.
Note: Never did bloodwork pre or post cycle till yesterday as I intended to start another cycle.
After I saw my Testosterone total results my whole world came crashing down along with my confidence and security. I could not sleep entire night and had to call my mom and girlfriend inorder to console myself. Okay without anymore drama I want to say that my testosterone levels are low i.e. 216 ng/dl (normal range: 400-1080).
This explains my difficulty of gaining muscles over past two years, mood swings, tiredness, depression and my lack of libido. I don’t get morning woods as I used to get precycle. I have difficulty in maintaining erection.
I will do further check ups i.e. estradiol, LH, FSH.
Note: I was considering doing power pct by Dr. Michael Scally. **But after reading sticky post by KSMan i think i would give HTPA restart a try.
Also I intend to update this post until the end results so that youngsters can learn from my mistake and guys learning to correct it can learn.

Will restarting HTPA after 2 years work?

~~~UPDATE 2~~~ ( E2 results in )

RESULTS :
Date: 25/04/2016
Reference Range
TT - 216 ng/dl 400-1080
FT - FT - 6.5 pg/ml 4.25 - 30.37
E2 - 27.4 pg/ml 0 - 56
FSH. - 2.86mIU/ml 1.5-12.4
LH. - 4.15.mIU/ml 1.7-8.6
Prolactin. - 17.69 ng/ml 4- 15.2

~~~UPDATE 3~~~
Date: 05/05/2016
RESULTS:

TT - 578.6 (RR 400-1080)
FSH - 5.36 (RR 1.5-12.4)
LH - 11.29 (RR 1.7-8.6)
CBC - Normal
Prostate Specific Antigen - 0.352 ng/ml (RR 0 - 4.44)
Semen Analysis - Normal
(**RR - Reference Range)
After 6 days of clomid therapy i have noticed improvement in mood and sleep, my erection is much stronger although libido is not great. I still haven't noticed morning wood. From the reports i can see that T levels are increasing due to increase in LH. Does it means if i get LH to normal ( lower ) my T levels will decrease. Besides these points what else does these results indicate - Hpta restarting? Primary or secondary hypogonadism? is there chance of full recovery?. I know too many questions.
I have an appointment with Endo tomorrow and will be asking same questions to him. If you guys find any other points kindly mention them so that i can ask my Endo too.
Thank you guys once again. Will be posting after meeting with Endo.

~~~UPDATE 4~~~
Date - 10/05/2016
I had discussion with my Endo. He is very happy with the reports and feels like my body can start producing testosterone naturally. he also stated that he doesnt wants me to get addicted to clomid and instead of short term increment he wants my body to recover for long term. Therefore he has stopped clomid and has asked to start Vitamin E and Co-enzyme Q-10 daily, and Vitamin D3 60000 iu once in 15 days ( please can someone tell me if it is sufficient or not ). He also told me not to worry about estrogen as 1 week of clomid wont elevate estrogen. He has called me after 3 months with FSH and TT reports.
I am feeling much better now with improvement in moods and also increase in libido with strong erection. I have been sleeping great lately which unfortunately makes it difficult for me to get up for gym. HaHa!
I hope these improvements are not temporary.

***NOTE - Guys i am using this post as a journal and hope you dont mind it. It is the only way I can explain my recovery and keep updated with latest lab results and suggestions from Endo. I hope that this journal can help people with htpa restart. Thank you.


#2

Please read these links found here: https://forums.t-nation.com/t/about-the-t-replacement-category/38/2?u=ksman

advice for new guys - please note comments about iodine and thyroid
things that damage your hormones
finding a TRT doctor


#3

Thank you KSman for your help. I know you are not a fan of Dr. Scally's HTPA restart protocol as i read almost all your post in this field and i agree with you on most of your arguments. Scally protocol is not what i am considering right now although it seemed attractive at first because of huge dosage that could start htpa for zero (as what he said).
I have appoinment with my endo today and only after that i am gonna start treatment under his supervision. Meanwhile can you give your opinion based on my current bloodwork. My main concern as of now is infertilty and low test levels for life.


#4

In any case, given your age, you need to give a restart a shot. This the the best way to address your concerns and fears. If that fails, TRT with hCG will preserve testes and fertilty.

Your E2=27 and low T made you very estrogen dominant and that may have locked in shutdown. Anastrozole needs to be part of your restart and should be continued low dose past the end of the restart.


#5

Hello guys! Just had discussion with my endo. He has prescribed me clomid 50mg for five days to see if theres increase in my LH/FSH and how my body (gonads react). My FSH/LH levels are low normal; he wants to bring that up first.
According to him, its too early to start HCG so it will be taken only when its needed. Also he stated that prolactin is not a concern as of now. He pointed out that usually body should regain its abilty to start test production back after washing out external test.
Other then LH/FSH I have been told to check CBC,PSA,TEST and Semen analysis after clomid 5 days course. He said all the secondary sexual features are normal like testicle size, pubic hair, facial hair. He had advised me to start taking cold showers, wearing boxers instead of tight underwear, no jeans pant and also avoid whey protein.
Overall he seem to be very nice person and was supportive. I feel positive and motivated. Thank you guys for helping me. Will be posting my new blood work within a week and will keep you updated.


#6

Guys! this is day 3 of my clomid therapy and i am having best sleeps in long time. Does clomid makes you drowsy just like Benadryl or is it the harmones?

***Note = 50 mg clomid before bedtime


#7

Secondary sexual characteristics are always fine in people with post pubertal hypogonadism. Boxers and whey protein is some of the idiotic gibberish that I hear from doctors who said that I was fine and don't need anything with FT of 6.8. You should take anastrozole with Clomid and monitor your e2 and make adjustments if you have to restart properly. You have been shut down for a long time and you will probably only have one attempt to be successful. Best of luck.

Edit: my doc told me to start wearing briefs instead of boxers. Hmmm


#8

It's the hormones. I get much better sleep now that I'm on clomid and arimidex.


#9

Please read these links found here: https://forums.t-nation.com/t/about-the-t-replacement-category/38/2?u=ksman

HPTA restart

That clomid dose is to high. LH can then be too high and T-->E2 inside the testes can raise E2 quite high. When you stop clomid, you are swimming in E2 that shuts you down. See the link for suggested approaches. Note that some guys feel like shit on clomid, they can do well using nolvadex that does not cause that problem in any guys.

Doctors do not know about these fine details. You have to understand and advocate for yourself.


#10

Should i check e2 again because i checked it a week ago. Will 5 days days of clomid will have any significant impact on E2? I was going to check E2 after a month.
Yes even i dont agree with doc regarding whey protein. But then again, i dont want to question his knowledge and expertise in this field and i intend to listen to his guidelines. After all, i am trusting him with my entire recovery programme.
Thank you equalo213 for commenting and sharing your knowledge. Will keep this thread updated with my latest lab work soon.


#11

Hello KSman,
I agree that clomid dose is high but it is only for 5 days to check if my pituitary is responding ( LH increases or no). Its not for long term. Should I do E2 test after 5 days of clomid or should i wait till clomid washes out. As of now my endo has not suggested me to take E2 at this stage.
Thank you KSman again for guiding me. Going through the links again.


#12

It sounds like your doctor is doing a challenge to make sure you are secondary not primary. I don't necessarily have a problem with this, it's not how I would do it, but at least he is making an attempt to manage your therapy instead of handing you some pills and telling your to go away.

After the week, definitely lower your dose, the half-life of clomid is 5-7 days, it will be in your system for a while.

Personally, I'd watch for symptoms, some people seem to tolerate higher E2 better than others.


#13

There is not much value to doing lab work during a transient state.


#14

Thanks for your advice gonadthebarbarian
Just gone my new blood work done. I have updated my post. Kindly check and if you have any feedback let me know.
Thanks again.:grinning:


#15

I know but my Endo needs it. Just got my latest blood work done. Kindly go through it and if you have any suggestions please mention it.
Thank you KSman


#16

KSMan is right, you are in a transient state. The results are very promising, you do seem to be secondary hypogonadism, and you T levels should keep improving. It takes a while for your testicles to come back online. I myself had some transient testicle pain during that process which seemed to take about a month.

Your prolactin is a touch higher than I'd like to see it. At the very least monitor it in the future.