T Nation

Low Test After Two Cycles, Help?

So regards to this being in the right section it’s a bit 50/50

Basically I did a test cycle, a pretty standard one pinning twice a week for 2-3 months, pct then a break for 2-3 months then another cycle for 2-3 month. I came off it with nova and clomid and then finally HCG at the end of the last cycle

This was 2 years ago. Ever since I stopped i’ve felt no energy, confused on mornings no morning wood etc, you know all the symptoms of low testosterone and some I don’t want to list. I doubt I even did the cycles right.

I figured a few years everything would return back to normal but no. I have almost 0
sex drive except once per week, I’m podgy at 1500 calories per day and it’s becoming so depressing, even when training hard.

I’m a 30 year old man, in the UK. So it’s impossible to get this help outside the NHS. One benefit is free bloodwork but they wont test for free test.

My results came back as

Test 12.9 nmol/L or 372 ng/dl

From what I gather this is an average healthy test count for a 60 year old male

The NHS response is that even though i’m exactly on the edge of low test I don’t qualify because, well it’s the NHS so there’s no actually care just what the book says

Could anyone give me advice or assist

-Is there anyway to reverse the effects of my test cycles if that is the cause? Will another pct cycle help?

-I don’t want to be on a high test cycle I just want normal test, if my countries health service wont help me can anyone assist in what else I could do/take?

-I couldn’t find any information on how much test/anything else I would have to take to go from 350 ng/dl to 650 (average healthy amount for 30 year old), like how much test should I take per week in ml etc?

Any help is really really appreciated

How tall are you and what do you weigh? You better be a really short guy if you’re eating only 1500 calories per day. Otherwise, I think I found your problem.

Will they measure SHBG? You can use that with total T to calculate free T. In fact, a lot of clinics here in the US prefer that method.

1 Like

You did that part backwards. HCG and then Nolva or Clomid. HCG is an LH analog and suppressive to your feedback loop. It won’t hurt to try another run of Nolvadex, but there is a real possibility that you did damage and just won’t get back to where you were.

I’m 5”10 so average where I’m from. I do eat more some days but I’m keeping it at 1500 to try and loose the chubb. With regards to them testing no it’s not something the NHS takes seriously and although it has it’s upsides when it comes to acute things like this the NHS is terrible, I could pay for one but unfortunately the pandemic and no one would see me at the moment. But I feel as though I have every symptom short of hair loss and it’s depressing

—-

should I run another pct cycle of clomid and nova? The HCG part I read from someone else when I started cycling so obviously bad information

I’m taking zinc and vitamin D supplements but I know the amount they will increase wont help substantially

Any help is really appreciated

Delete

You’d get private TRT in the UK no probs with those symptoms and numbers. Will cost you around £90 per month, plus tests. You can get all the tests you want through Medichecks without going through private or NHS.

Or you could go the black market route and use Medichecks to monitor.

If you have Clomid or Nolva on hand, go ahead and run it.

Yes sorry, my reply was purely if trying a restart doesn’t yield results and you want to do TRT in the UK, there are now quite a few places to go outside of the NHS

With 1500 kcal I’d be having low test too. That is a ridiculously low calorie number. Even when cutting you shouldn’t need to go that low. Your body thinks you’re starving, no wonder it doesn’t want to make a baby to feed.

Run a Nolva only PCT 6 weeks and eat at least 2500 kcals, after 10-12 weeks check your test again.

1 Like

I have eaten a lot before and it still generally stays in the chubby area

If I run nolvadex only for 6 weeks as you suggested I’m reading lots of different advice for it

I’ve read Nolvadex
40mg per day for two weeks
20mg per day for four weeks

Does that sound about right?

That diet is not a solution. There’s something wrong with your metabolism if you don’t lose weight on 1500 kcals per day and the solution is not to go on with that. Can you increase the weight at least once every two weeks on your compound lifts? I can’t imagine your body can gain strength or muscle on that kind of diet. Examine your progress, if there is none, then change your diet, your training or both.

That sounds alright. That is the general consensus. The opinions are a bit conflicting. Probably less could give you the same results.
Important: Tamoxifen and it’s metabolite have a long half life. So don’t test your hormones to soon after, otherwise you don’t see if you’ve actually recovered.

I’m saying it again though: if you eat like that no amount of steroids or PCT will help you.

So here’s an update

I did what was said, completed my clomid/nolvadex course. I felt literally no change after what so ever

If I hadn’t stated before I just want to lose weight more than anything, my lifts are decent I can do 40kg incline on the dumbells for reps and that’s enough for me I’m not aiming to be Arnie, I just want to not be fat.

So 4 weeks a go I started an Anavar course and did 40mg a day for the period. This is my 4th day off and I intend to start a pct from day 7 of Clomid and Nolvadex again.

I haven’t lost any weight. I’ve put 2kg on. I’ve been on 2 meals a day, calorie counting, that’s 15-20kg I’ve put on since January I’m 112kg now.

Please can anyone advise. The Anavar has done nothing, I’m covered in stretch marks on my guts. It’s not about becoming He-Man, I just want to lose this fat and love handles and be able to eat food.

Any cutters or should I go back to test, even taking test I’d be happy just taking enough to go back to the average test of a 30 year old not 60 year old.

Any advice please would be great.

Anavar isn’t really a fat burner. What is your diet like? What kinds of food are you eating? Macros and calories?

Look man, the laws of thermodynamics apply to you as equally as they do to everyone else. If you think you’re eating at a deficit but your weight keeps going up then either 1.) your scale is broken, or 2.) you’re not eating in a deficit.

And if your test levels were already low why in the world would you run ocandrolone solo? That’s exactly what you shouldn’t be doing.

Here’s a series of solutions for you, research them at your leisure.

  1. Clomid—actual pharma, no UGL bullshit—at 25mg three times a week. Clomid monotherapy is used to raise testosterone levels in place of TRT and it’s pretty effective. Try it for three months and see how much your numbers improve.

  2. Do more cardio. I don’t know how much you’re doing now but it’s not enough.

  3. Get a better diet. The one you have is clearly not working. That’s fine. Sometimes it takes a few tries to nail down what works and what doesn’t. There’s no shame in failing. Shame comes when you give up.

  4. No more drugs for a while. Get your levels up with the Clomid and just focus on training and eating. See what progress looks like. Once you’ve gotten closer to your desired result you can think about tinkering with cycles and such.

Only on the long term is this true. Short term, you can be in a deficit and gain weight.

The whole “15-20kg since January” made me comfortable enough to assume that he’s in the long term category at this point. But yes, you are correct that in the short term it’s entirely possible to gain while in deficit. But for nine months…I’m going to assume that something else is off.

I came to the conclusion too. Just busting your chops a bit.

1 Like

Thank you both hah I was literally about to say you get told by others to fast and then the next group will say eat more. I’ve been told to do both.

I’ve been travelling and eating only 2 meals for the last 2 weeks. I’ve been down to 1 meal a day for the last 4 days, protein shake and some other bits yesterday aprox 600-800 calories. Currently put 2.5kg on this month, am in A and E due to my apendix atm so I am sure on those numbers and have no appetite.

I will take your advice and run clomid thank you for that. Due to this anavar course should I run a start with nolva and clomid like a pct or just straight to the 3x a week?

Thank you for the help

I’d say if you’re going to try monotherapy you won’t need to do a full pct first. The objective is to get higher than normal baseline, and usually that’s low (because people with high numbers don’t do monotherapy), so you’re at A starting point that isn’t that far off. If you were coming off a full cycle then pct first would make sense.

Look into a little bit and see if the doses I mentioned are accurate. Those are from memory, which is generally good but of course imperfect. I’d also suggest blood work before you start and then about eight weeks in. Normally you don’t do blood work with a SERM still in your system, but that only applies to pct and not your particular circumstance. If you’re not seeing a huge improvement then you may have to explore other options. But for now the goal is get levels higher without testosterone and get diet dialed in. If you go too hard—like, say eating only 800 calories—your body will just start feasting on your muscle and you’ll still look (and feel) pretty fat. You need to find that balance. And trust me, I know how hard it is. I’ve been there.

Why wait a week? It’s a short acting oral, in and out quick. Taking both drugs as PCT for a small oral-only cycle is likely over kill. Pick one, you’ll be fine