T Nation

Low T

Fed up with the virtually non-existent sex drive I’ve had for the past 2-3 years, I went to the doc the other day for a total testosterone check. My levels came back at 120 (normal: 240-840). This is despite good (but not stunning) progress in the gym and no apparent atrophy of the testes. So for those of you who suffer from low sex drive but otherwise have no reason to suspect low testosterone, you may want to have that test done anyway. I’m glad I did.

(No wonder I’m always talking about politics instead of sex.)

Interesting. What kind of treatment did he suggest, or what are you going to do about it?

Hey I wonder what the new t flowing Mike will be like? Not that I have not gotten a good laugh out of the origional.

He wants to do T replacement therapy, but I may see if I can get him to try Clomid first (then again, maybe not – don’t know if Clomid would ever get me into the high normal range).

I had the same thing happen to me! Altho it was fine last year, I’m sure… anyways, don’t go for test replacement! Your nuts will shrivel… pills are easy but hard on kidneys, injections every week for the rest of your life suck.

So do what I’m doing – go the herbal route :slight_smile: My doc was highly suspicious, btw… so I’m taking Tribulus and Avena Sativa (yes, the two ingredients of Tribex… which I can’t get in South Africa because of the assholes of the Medical Countrol Council). You’re probably fortunate to be able to take it.

I also take Saw Palmetto… I’m sure this is stopping a lot of my Test from converting into DHT and estrogen! I remember the t-mag staff said it wasn’t so good, that’s why they removed it from Tribex (I can’t remember why exactly… whill have to read the article again). But it sure makes me feel more aggressive!

Good luck Mike!

I am using the Androgel T replacement. Try it…you’ll like it!! Energy levels up, sex drive way up, gym progress seems to be better (only been on it 2 weeks). Easy as can be, you just smear a couple packets of gel on each morning.

T

MIKE DA LIB…don’t ever stop talking politics I love it. You help solidify or breakdown people’s beliefs and we all need that. As for your test levels…What was your IGF-1 and DHEA levels? Sex makes DHEA so when my girl is out of town for a few weeks I load up on DHEA supps and I like the difference. Maybe you can indirectly raise it a little with HGH and some DHEA…Just my thoughts…let us know how you are adjusting and what kind of results you are getting. Thanks.

I’m curious: did you go to your GP for the T test, or did you go to a specialist (say, an endocrinologist)?

Mike, you might want to try HCG before the
T replacement. Tribex, vitex and clomid can
all help, but probably won’t get you past
the low-mid normal levels. However, HCG might
be able to put you in the high normals, while
still keeping your tests working. T
replacement will eventually lead to testicle
atrophy; HCG won’t. Downside = daily
injections, which aren’t bad at all since you
can use a 29 guage insulin needle.

I do believe that HCG is definitely in order for MIKE DA LIB, however I disagree about HCG causing testicular atrophy. Yes it is used to stimulate the testis, but continued use (say more than 4-6 weeks) will most definitely cause atrophy due to excess Test levels. CAN a guru please confirm this for us? Thanks.

Well, I’ve gotta echo Knuckledragger on this one - I’m not exactly sure what a new, improved, T-enhanced MtL will be like. (I’m not sure I want to imagine… :slight_smile: ) Still, good luck on this, bud.

M.T.L., have you ever used Androsol? I’m not suggesting this as a solution to your problem, rather I’m just curious as to how you felt when on Androsol. Did it make you feel like normal, above normal, or have no effect? Good luck with your balls.

It depends on how much you use. 500 IU per
day put me in high normal, with only a little
increase in estrogen. I personally have only used more than that a couple times (500 IU 2x per day), but that was before having a hot date. :slight_smile: But your statement doesn’t make any sense: HCG completely bypasses the hypothalmic regulation, so high T levels won’t cause loss of test function. You might lose some test function if your balls become desensitized to HCG, but according to Bill Roberts that won’t happen at the lower 500 IU/day dosage, only regular use of the higher dosage of 1000 or 2000+ IU might cause that.

I also recently had my hormone levels checked due to almost the same reasons (sex drive lower, but not non-existent). To my surprise my values were as follows:
Total T = 176 (normal range 240 - 850);
Free T = 12.4 (normal range is 7 - 25);
SHBG = 9 (normal is 14 - 83);
DHEA = normal according to doctor;
LH = 0.9 (normal is 1.7 - 8.6);
FSH = <2. Not sure what normal levels are.
My primary care physician had me see an endocrinologist who told me he didn’t believe I had a problem due to my “normal” free T. He further told me that he didn’t trust the total T reading since that can be erroneous; he concentrates on the free T. Currently he will be analyzing a recent blood sample to determine the health of my whole system (other than endocrine system) since he said lack of energy and drive may be due to other reasons than low T.
To me, it’s obvious that my LH is way low, therefore my nuts aren’t getting the proper signal to produce anymore than what I’m producing at the moment.
The amazing thing is that I’ve been taking vitex (400 mg of Soloray product…NOT the extract but the whole herb) since Brock first started writing about it. I’m not taking anything else. Perhaps that’s the reason for the decrease in SHBG and normal reading of free T.

Oh, forgot to mention that my thyroid hormones were in the normal range as well (don’t have those numbers…just what the doc told me). For some reason estrodiol and cortisol levels were not checked. That’s too bad; it would have been interesting.

Jagin: Tribex and Vitex seem to have no effect on me. In fact, I was taking both prior to the T test.

TJ, what are your testosterone levels using the gel? How many packets do you use a day and what are the doses?

D_END, I’m not sure if my DHEA levels were tested, but that’s something I can look into if raising T does not solve my problem (at this point I’m ready for a pharmacological solution).

Zev, I went to my general practitioner. He is not very knowledgable about hormones, but he empathizes with my situation and is eager to help. Guess I got lucky.

Free, thanks for the advice. What’s the deal on the link between HCG and gyno? Also, can everyone achieve high-normal levels of testosterone with HCG, or only some people?

Thanks for the well wishes, char-dawg.

Choad, I’ve tried Androsol and definitely noticed an improvement in sex drive (pronounced, but not dramatic). That’s one of the factors that led me to get the test.

Samurai, I would go back to your primary care physician and tell him the endocrinologist is not being helpful. If that doesn’t work, you could try being more forceful.

Mike- Ever thought about getting on the Eat Right 4 Your Type diet?

Mike: how high ones T levels get from HCG use
really depends on how well your testes work.
Apparently, some people only get to mid-normal
levels with HCG use, and using more doesn’t
improve results. The only way to know is to
try that first. Regarding the estrogen, this
really depends on your propensity for
aromatization and how much HCG you use. Larger
quantities are likely to increase the risk
of problems. Again, the only way to know how
it will effect you is to try it, and have
blood work done for T and E.

Free: Thanks for the info. Somehow I was thinking HCG could promote gyno apart from testosterone aromatization. If that’s not the case, then I will try HCG therapy first, doctor permitting, closely monitoring T & E levels.